Episode 101: Doris Jackson-Shazier

DorisJackson-Shazier-Episode 101

Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Pretty Powerful Podcast, where powerful women are interviewed every week to share real inspiring stories and incredible insight to help women or anyone break the barriers, be a part of innovation, shatter the glass ceiling, and dominate to the top of their sport, industry, or life's mission.

Join us as we celebrate exceptional women and step into our power. And now here's your host, Angela Gennari.

Angela Gennari: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Pretty Powerful Podcast. My name is Angela Gennari and today I am here with Doris Jackson Shazier. Hi, Doris. Hey, Angela. How's it going? Amazing. Thank you.

I'm excited to talk to you today because I think we're going to have a really, really good conversation about the mother daughter relationship. Um, which I think is okay. So Doris Jackson Shazier is an accomplished ICF accredited coach, author, and speaker with over two decades of experience specializing [00:01:00] in organizational growth and empowering others to create high accountability, high morale environments in their home and workplace.

Doris is also a dedicated wife and mother of four committed to teaching the values of love, grace, and forgiveness. That's amazing. I love this so much. So let me first ask, um, so you're, you're an author. And you've written a book. Tell me about the book.

Doris Jackson Shazier: I have. So the name of my book is Raising Justice. And I mean, the meaning of the title is quite literal.

My first child, her name is Justice. Okay, good. And so it kind of tells the story of me raising her. Now the, the, the title does have a dual meaning. So part of it is literal. I'm raising justice. The other part of it is like a part of a movement and what it means to actually raise justice. And really it's the pursuit of parenting in a way that you weren't parented.

So how do you then instill [00:02:00] or parent or nurture a child in a way that maybe you didn't observe or experience? And so I am kind of asking people to come along with me to kind of raise justice. Like, how do we again together create a better life for our children or parent him from a way that we didn't necessarily experience?

Angela Gennari: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Because so many times when I talk to people, they say, well, I don't know how to be a father. I don't know how to be a, my, mine was not a good example. And then they lean on that as an excuse to not do better. And so I love that you're intentional about like, Hey, I may not have seen or experienced this, but we can do better as parents and we can raise a better generation.

So I think that that's amazing.

Doris Jackson Shazier: Right. Yes. Oh, I love the way you just recapped it. So yeah, that's kind of raising justice is it's like, okay, we didn't get it. You know, we didn't get the handbook. We didn't get to see it at home. Sure. But in the book, you really kind of hear it's again, it's not a perfection guide.

It's [00:03:00] not a parenting guide, but you really get to hear a transparent thoughts about what is the challenges that I face. Yeah. And what it was like to suspend judgment and to pause and not react to certain situations that maybe I would have reacted differently if I was like my grandmother, or I wouldn't have had the conversation because certain conversations weren't allowed when I was growing up.

Yeah. So I love to tell people how it begins and how it ends because the meat of it really is in the beginning. You find me as a 19 year old first generation college student. Um, I'm pregnant in a relationship that I know I'm not going to continue. And this book really begins outside of an abortion clinic.

So it is a story that almost didn't happen. And then I go on to raise a 19 year old college graduate. So at the same age I was contemplating pregnancy, I had the fortunate opportunity to watch that child walk across the [00:04:00] collegiate stage blocks away from where I was young, confused in college and almost did not have her.

It's a powerful testimony of resiliency, of love, of how in raising justice, God really raised me. And so I'm just on a mission to kind of share with others a couple of things that we all can raise justice. And then also I like to share with people about this book. Um, it is that motherhood was my first real leadership position

Both: and how

Doris Jackson Shazier: the skills that I learned as a mother, I was able to transition into the workforce.

And I think sometimes we don't think about it that way, or I think the workforce wants us to believe that, um, being a parent or being a mom sometimes Sometimes makes us a liability to say we're not a liability at all. We get so much development and skills and everything just in being moms that you might want to tap a mom on your shoulder.

If you want your business ran, [00:05:00] right.

Angela Gennari: Yes, exactly. Well, because we've learned how to deal with, you know, obstacles and challenges. I mean, how many times are we challenged by our children on a daily basis? Right.

Doris Jackson Shazier: Or creating a budget and time management and we cook clean. Yes. Nurture like we're counselors, ubers.

Like we do it all.

Angela Gennari: We really are. Yes, absolutely. And I have not been blessed with a daughter, you know, and I think that that's kind of, it's a, it's a blessing and a curse, you know, I would have loved to raise a daughter, but all the, the. At the same time, I am, I have an amazing son and I'm so grateful for him.

But, um, I think to myself all the time, like, gosh, what if I had a daughter? Because I was not the easiest child to raise. I'm just being honest. I was not an easy daughter to raise. Um, I challenged my mother constantly and, and I look at my son and he's like, so even keeled and like, there's our. There's never drama.

And I'm like, Holly, [00:06:00] like I was not this way when I was growing

Doris Jackson Shazier: up. Daughters definitely are sometimes our reflection.

Both: So I would

Doris Jackson Shazier: say, thank God I was a pretty good child. Yeah. My daughter, she definitely has that of me. But all those little nuances and things that I have to be honest with you, they show up in your daughter.

Like you really can see yourself better, your daughter. But also another thing that you really get to see is your mom. Like you start to understand them better. Like, Oh yeah. Oh, that's why she felt that way. Cause now I see what it feels like. So you definitely get to understand your mom a little bit better when you have a daughter too.

Oh, yeah. Oh, 100%.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Cause there's so many times where I've walked in. I'm like, okay, mom, I'm sorry, because I know what you felt like right now. Because like, when I tell my son about curfews and, you know, accountability and all of these things and things that I used to push back on with my mom. And, you know, I'm thankful that [00:07:00] my son doesn't push back a whole lot, but the worry that you feel, the sickness when, when they don't check in at exactly the time you need them to check in, like that just constantly.

And I just never thought about it, you know, when I was a kid and I was like, I'm going to stay at my friend's house. And I would just call him like, I'm staying here. And like with no, and she's just had to trust the process. There were not cell phones. There was not, you know, so

Doris Jackson Shazier: much more trusting, like we have all types of apps and things to kind of help us.

Yep. I can't, I don't know how she did it. Like, I don't know how my grandmother did it. Like, no,

Angela Gennari: I completely agree. I, I, I don't know that I would have survived that generation.

Both: Yes.

Angela Gennari: But, um, but yes, I love that you wrote a book about it because, and, and what's your, what's your, I just got to ask what's your, what's Justice think?

Doris Jackson Shazier: Justice was so proud of the book. So the fortune, we did a big book launch and we had about 50 people that showed up and we talked about it and she was asked that question. And so, um, she says, [00:08:00] I'm so proud of my mom. And I was like, Oh, cause it's something amazing about hearing your child say that they're proud of you.

And she said that she felt honored. She's like, I feel honored to have a book written about me. And she says, and much like the readers, she was learning a little bit about herself. Self too, because some of those things she didn't even remember. Wow. Um, 'cause she was four or five years old when we had these experiences.

And, um, so she feels very honored by it. And so now I've been tasked with, um, I just recently announced that this book is the beginning of a series. Oh. Because I am a mother of four and so my three sons are like. And I'm like, Oh, I have a feeling about that. But once I did process it, what's interesting is because of how my kids are spread out, I'm a different kind of mom with each one of them.

So I was that 19 year old mom with her. And I grew up, but then I have a child right now. So she's 20 years old now.

Both: I have

Doris Jackson Shazier: a [00:09:00] child that is 17 and, and he, uh, is a senior in high school.

Both: And I

Doris Jackson Shazier: always tell people I'm like a public defender for him. Like every time I turn around, I'm somewhere pleading his case.

Both: And

Doris Jackson Shazier: then I have a, uh, an 11 year old who just went to sixth grade and. I'm a different kind of parent with him. And then I have a five year old that just went to kindergarten. Wow. And so I'm, I get a different experience with him. I get to meet a young, cool parent sometimes with justice. Like I get mistaken for her sister.

Like it's amazing. And then I have the five year old that some days I feel like, what was I thinking? You know, at this age and I'm here at a kindergarten orientation. You know? Yes. Yes.

Angela Gennari: Yeah.

Doris Jackson Shazier: So there, this is raising justice, but there will be a raising Dion, a raising Dorian and a raising Davion and each one, I will attack different issues and different experiences in motherhood because I think I can relate to [00:10:00] a lot of different women at different stages of their life.

And then how do I apply those learnings into other areas? So I think it's going to be really nice and more to come.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, that's beautiful. I love it. And I love that you've included all of your children in that. I think that's a really, really special thing for each of them and for you and something that, you know, documents their life and how amazing would that be for a child to say, this book is about me and my mother and our, and our relationship and how we've grown together.

So that's really beautiful.

Doris Jackson Shazier: Yeah, I've committed. So I'm like, Oh, this other kid is like 17. Probably got a two year span on him. Right. Get it all out. I got a little bit longer on the other one, but they already have interesting stories. No, very, that's beautiful.

Angela Gennari: Well, good for you for being able to even remember them because I look back and sometimes it's and you were saying about justice not remembering some things when she was younger like yesterday [00:11:00] we did our first college tour with my son and I'm like, Oh, do you remember so and so is our neighbor and you know, they go to the school and he's like, who?

And I'm like, how do you not remember her neighbors? So you played with them. We went on like vacation. So I don't remember who they are. Like, how is that possible?

Doris Jackson Shazier: Yeah, no, they don't remember it all. I think for her, she was like, just as interested in the story. And she read the whole book we went through as I finished chapters.

And I let her be a part of the editing process. Um, cause especially as she got older, I wanted to make sure that the story felt true to her. You know, experience. And so she was like, mom, you remember that? And he was like, she's like, I vaguely remember we in a car that day. And I'm like, no, I remember that conversation.

It really stuck with me. I had an aha moment in that conversation for her. We was just riding in the car talking.

Angela Gennari: Wow. That's amazing. So sometimes, you know, it's funny, cause I have a psychology degree and every once in a while I'll try to like dig into like my son's Like psyche, you know? And I'm like, I'm like, so honey, if you ever go to [00:12:00] counseling one day, what will you tell them that I did?

You know,

Doris Jackson Shazier: like, what are you healing from? Like everybody has something in healing from whatcha healing from

Angela Gennari: did I, what did I do? And I like, tell me now so I can try to fix it. I don't want you to like, you know, go into adulthood and be like, I wish my mom had blah, blah blah. And I was like, 'cause I think we all deal with.

Some kind of childhood trauma, whether that, you know, my mom was an amazing mom, but she worked a lot, lot, lot. And so like for me, that caused some trauma just in feeling like, you know, I had to have, be like super hyper independent and I still carry that with me. And so, you know, whatever it is. And even if you have a great parent, sometimes you deal with childhood trauma, even in their best intentions, they've caused something in you that has, you know, maybe impacted how you, how you do things in the.

Both: Yeah. So I asked him

Angela Gennari: like, what is it that I'm going to create? What is, what is going to cause you to go to counseling? I just want to know that now.

Doris Jackson Shazier: You know what? I love that you just have that realization. I think that it's like, there is no perfect parent. They will grow [00:13:00] up in, in, in form their own opinions about their lives.

And there will be something, you know, who knows what the something is. I think all of mine may have a different something. The five year old lives a life that's nothing like what a five year old lives, you know? And so, but I'm like, he's going to find something too. I think as parents, we kind of have to realize that we're doing our best out here.

Both: He

Doris Jackson Shazier: may eventually find something. I found out mine. Um, with justice and I talk about it in the book and in, in mental health versus mental

Both: toughness. I have focused

Doris Jackson Shazier: so much on being mentally tough that I didn't create enough space sometimes to be vulnerable. And so it was one of those things that I didn't teach, but she caught it.

And I realized that not everything is taught. Some things are caught, like they just catch on to it. And because she saw me always being strong and overcoming, she didn't realize that I was crying in the shower. Because I didn't cry in front of them. Like, I didn't give them that part of the [00:14:00] story. And now I'm a lot more open about that.

Because I want them to know it's balanced, and I want them to know that sometimes we break down before we step up. And it's okay.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, it is. Okay. Absolutely. And I love that phrase. I love that. You just said some things are caught and not taught because it's so true. I mean, sometimes we don't realize what we're doing, but our kids do, uh, because they, they see us as the version of us that we show them.

Both: Yeah.

Angela Gennari: And so, and we think we're able to hide a lot of things, but you know, they, they're more, they're more observant than we give them credit for. Definitely. So, um, so tell me when you started writing this book, were you in the corporate world then? So I

Doris Jackson Shazier: started writing this book when she was about five or six years old.

Wow. I started journaling this book for a very long time. I've actually always wanted to be an author. Okay. And I just was too busy. Yeah. Um, again, I spent the last 20 years in corporate, [00:15:00] several different positions where I moved up from, you know, I started in retail restaurants, store manager to district manager, to, you know, a regional VP role and into a senior director role.

So yeah, I was a pretty busy, traveled very often, but I would journal these experiences. And I always knew I would write the book. And so when I took my exit from corporate America, it's been about almost 18 months now.

Both: Okay.

Doris Jackson Shazier: Um, and I decided that I wanted to leave and build a life that I really wanted and build a career that I really wanted.

And so I've started 10 books and never finished one.

Both: Wow. So I've had the

Doris Jackson Shazier: ideas, I've had the concepts, so turning this into a series now takes me to 13. Oh gosh. Yeah. So it's always been something I've been passionate about, I just never took the time to really cultivate it. And so once I kind of was liberated,

Angela Gennari: yeah,

Doris Jackson Shazier: yeah, yeah.

And I decided to [00:16:00] focus in on it and really the editing process and taking it to finalization probably took me three, three and a half, four months because I had a lot of the details already.

Angela Gennari: Right. And that that's important. And I think that's beautiful that you started writing it so young, because, um, that's one of the hardest things is trying to reflect back.

Like, I wish I had done more journaling. I wish I had, you know, taken the time to write down my thoughts and my feelings in the moment, because trying to reflect back is really challenging.

Doris Jackson Shazier: Yeah, especially as you add on different experiences, more children. Like now that I've committed to a series in this book, I've already taken out a journal for all of them and got back to some of my writing.

I had already been writing certain things, but now I'm becoming more disciplined and capturing certain moments that I'll be able to use later.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. So what's the hardest part about writing? Uh,

Doris Jackson Shazier: the hardest part is just doing it. Yeah, because it's so easy to be [00:17:00] distracted. Um, now that again, I'm a full time, uh, entrepreneur, I can, I have more autonomy over my time.

So I schedule it. So now it's just a matter of, you have the time in your day. You've already blocked it out where you don't have any appointments. Now you just need to focus and do it.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, absolutely.

Doris Jackson Shazier: Yeah. So the hardest part is just making yourself. Focus and do it because man, you'll get easily distracted.

Angela Gennari: Yes. Well, you're, you're exactly right. There's always something right? Like there's, there's no, there's a never ending list of things that you could be doing. And I tend to procrastinate on those things that I should be doing. And then I fill in my time with things that are not as important. And I don't understand that.

It's, it's some kind of thing that I've got to get through. It's a, it's a block. Um, but yeah, that that's, it's a difficult thing to, to have that discipline.

Doris Jackson Shazier: Yes, it is.

Angela Gennari: So in your coaching practice, you actually teach people high accountability, high morale environments. So, so how do [00:18:00] you, um, instill that high accountability in others?

Doris Jackson Shazier: Well, what I really do is, um, I teach others how to kind of like what you described, how to align what you really want with your actions. Because sometimes we really want something, but our actions don't necessarily reflect that. Right. And so I help them to create strategies and systems that align better with what they truly want.

And then I kind of, as a, as a coach, I am a partner, um, I can kind of serve as an accountability partner in terms of, I am there to, you know, remind, help reflect, help to cultivate realizations so that they can stay aligned with the things that they really, really want. Um, so yeah, I use a couple strategies and partner with them, meet with them on a regular basis and really keep their goals top of mind.

And have them to align your actions with it.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, that's key because I'm, I'm [00:19:00] terrible at that. Like I'm, I'll tell you, I need to do these five things this week, and then it'll be Thursday and my coach will check in with me and say, so how are you coming along with the list? And I'm like, um, About the list that might be the same list next week.

It's like you, you just got it. You got to make it a thing. And so I'm trying to

Doris Jackson Shazier: help them create urgency. We need help with prioritizing things. I'll give you an example for me. I've known I want to be an author almost my whole life. I started writing my first book at about 15 years old, and it wasn't necessarily a priority for me.

Fast forward to 2021, I believe it was, yeah, COVID. I spent seven days in the hospital. Wow. Um, I spent another three months in oxygen treatment. I experienced severe impact to my lungs and in the [00:20:00] quietness. And the stillness, I'm like, okay, I almost left here. And if I had left, am I leaving the legacy that I really wanted?

Angela Gennari: Yes.

Doris Jackson Shazier: Everything that I'm doing so aligned with. And so that created urgency for me. So when I find myself in situations where, okay, I'm getting a little bit out of alignment, I have to chunk back up and think about the overall goal here. And that's how I create urgency for myself. I go back to remember when you were sitting there and it was quiet.

And the things that you said, if I had to leave here, I wanted these things accomplished and done. Then the six figure salary I had honestly became a little bit less important to me.

Both: Yeah.

Doris Jackson Shazier: Certain thing. And I was able to have the courage and make the leap to do the things that I felt best aligned for me because I chunked up to what really, really matters.

Both: Yeah. And so

Doris Jackson Shazier: sometimes I help people to, to [00:21:00] do that because we get caught in the day to day little things and maybe we need to look at the bigger picture.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. Wow. That's, you know, I, I hate that you went through that, but you know, God has a way of putting us exactly where we need to be to learn the lessons.

He needs us to learn in that moment. So, you know, as much as that was a painful moment, it was also a pivotal

Doris Jackson Shazier: moment. It was the right. Right moment. I told people when I, when I left corporate America, it was a bunch of things going wrong. And I'm saying, man, it was the right set of circumstances. Right? And it was like the right, like this was happening.

You know, you, it was character assassination. You were being demoralized. It was a toxic work in my, it was the right set of circumstances. Mm-Hmm. , it was a right set's because I might not have left right had it not been that way. That's exactly

Angela Gennari: right.

Both: Mm hmm.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. If you had this job that was very comfortable and you had the ability to be complacent, you're like, it's fine.

It's fine. It's fine. It was that

Doris Jackson Shazier: way for years. Yeah. It was that way for years. Yeah. [00:22:00]

Angela Gennari: Well, and, and I think that the, the phrase it's fine is one of the most dangerous because you're not thrilled. It doesn't fulfill you, but it's fine. And if you're just fine, that means you're enduring, but you're not, you're not going above and beyond.

You're not actually accomplishing what you want.

Both: Exactly.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. So, so how is your work life balance now? So I definitely have better

Doris Jackson Shazier: balance, but I'm a difficult boss. Like

I'm my own boss and I think I'm a lot more gracious to other people than I am to myself. Yes,

Angela Gennari: I can agree with that. I can do the same thing.

Doris Jackson Shazier: So, so yeah, I think sometimes I'm hard on myself. The great thing is because I am a coach, I am well equipped on how to coach myself. And so when I get into those moments, I have to sit down and I have to pause and I have to speak positive language to myself.

And I have to make sure that, you know, if you have to hear [00:23:00] ugly things, you don't need to hear them in your own voice. You know, like there's enough people in the world that, that'll tell you what you're not good at. You don't have to be one of them. Right. I made sure that, you know, I'm encouraging myself and right now I am in an awesome phase in life where I get to prioritize family and then my appointments.

Both: And

Doris Jackson Shazier: so I put my kids calendars, I put the events with my husband, I put the events with my church because I lead a marriage ministry with my church. I put those things in my calendar first. And then I book my client's appointments and things like that. And so, um, it's a wonderful space to be in to where I can see my kids off in the morning and I can see them when they come home in the daytime, 80 percent of the time.

Now there are some times of scheduling conflicts, but for the most part. So I'm in a great place right now as it relates to balance, because I'm able to understand which calendar comes first.

Angela Gennari: Yes. Good for you. Golly, I love [00:24:00] that so much. So are you still traveling

Doris Jackson Shazier: a lot? Yeah, I don't travel as much, but I love to travel just for business and pleasure.

Right. And so right now I'm available for leadership coaching virtually and leadership facilitation all across the country, even internationally. If you invite me there, I'll come. So yeah, I do a little traveling now. I got a couple upcoming events. I'll be in New York. I'll be in California. I just got back from Oklahoma recently.

And so I do travel to deliver, um, leadership training. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. So I love to travel personally. So

Angela Gennari: yeah,

Doris Jackson Shazier: I try and go somewhere every quarter.

Angela Gennari: Oh, good for

Doris Jackson Shazier: you. And so have your kids caught the travel bug? They have. My daughter's actually booked to go to Korea next month. And it's something that has been on her list.

She wants to go. She's always been fascinated with just Asian culture, period. And so now she gets to go there. So I'm excited for her that she has the confidence.

Angela Gennari: Yeah.

Doris Jackson Shazier: [00:25:00] And the savviness to say, Hey, I want to go to another country. She's booked all her things. She's been doing her research. So I'm excited for her to go.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, I am the same way. I love it when my son travels. He just recently, he, he's had a busy summer, but he went with his school to Costa Rica. And so I'm like, Oh my gosh, he's traveling out of the country without his parents. Like that's, it felt weird to me, but I was so excited for him because like, I love that, that.

willingness to, to go beyond your comfort zone. So even though he's with a class, I just think it's beautiful that he's, he's out there and

Doris Jackson Shazier: it feels good as a parent that you raise a child that isn't afraid because so many people never leave home. No, you never leave home. And so when you're able to raise a child that has that confidence,

Both: Mm

Doris Jackson Shazier: hmm go and explore or uncomfortable or they're just curious enough to want to know what it's like somewhere else It feels good.

Angela Gennari: It is. Well, and we actually just had this conversation last [00:26:00] night because we were talking about some of his friends and And how some of his friends, like he, he's trying to get together. He's trying to get everybody to come together for a senior spring break trip. They're all seniors in high school. And he's like, I just don't understand it because some of them just want to go to Florida, which, you know, we're right next to Florida, we're in Georgia.

So he's like, he's like, they want to go to Florida. He's like, why would you not want to like leave the country and go do something? And they just don't understand like what the value is in doing that and he was like, it just expands your mind and it gives you, you know, an idea of what is out there outside of our little, you know, six hour radius from our house.

And he was like, why would you not want to explore the world? He's ahead of his

Doris Jackson Shazier: time. Don't get there. He got a baby steps in there.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, but he's like, he's trying to like push all of his friends. Like, come on, you got to leave the country. There's so much of the world to explore. And so he's out there, the cheerleader of like international travel.

So

Doris Jackson Shazier: I love that

Angela Gennari: though.

Doris Jackson Shazier: I love it.

Angela Gennari: [00:27:00] Um, so tell me a little bit about your relationships now with your clients. Like how does that impact your relationships with your children and raising your children and coaching your clients? Do you feel like there's a lot? Do you, do you feel like sometimes you end up coaching your kids or is it kind of that same mindset?

Doris Jackson Shazier: Well, I do both. So, um, um, so as I'm teaching people how to build high accountability, high morale at work in life, what I'm trying to do, especially for women is break down that dissonance we feel where we have to do certain things at work and in certain things at home, because really it takes the same skills are required to grow people anywhere you go.

Yeah. And so I am a nurturer when I was in corporate America. I am a nurturer when my clients and I'm a nurturer when it comes to my children. I, for years, I spent time trying to suppress certain parts of my personality to be in certain environments because I got to be tough here and things like that.

Sure. It's too much wasted energy. You are who you are. And, yeah. [00:28:00] Especially the one of the competitive advantages we have as mothers is the same things that we learn in motherhood to develop children. They work in the workforce as well. Empathy,

Both: you know,

Doris Jackson Shazier: seeking to understand, uh, recognizing them, their efforts.

rewarding when they achieve the goal, setting goals, giving role clarity. I, I use the same language and I, I do it both at work and at home. And so with my clients, I'm consistently role modeling for them, but also teaching them how you don't have to be two different people. Set goals for your kids. Follow up on them, recognize when they make, uh, exert good effort, reward them once they achieve the goal is no, why have a, a development plan for someone at work and you don't have a development plan for the, the child that God gave you like, no, have it for both.

And so, [00:29:00] yeah, I really help leaders to not create dissonance and to become more effective by streamlining and using the same process they, they have in both places.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, and I'm a big fan of accountability for kids. I mean, like my son, I would always, I would, he's had to be accountable his whole life. And like, you know, there are penalties and consequences, but then there's also rewards and there's also taking initiative, you know, and, and the benefits of taking initiative, like when, when he wanted Something and you know, like for me, I'm all about, you have to earn something like you, you know, you want 400 sneakers.

I'm not buying you 400 sneakers. I'll give you 100 towards sneakers. You pay the other 300 and he was 13 and he wanted these sneakers. And so I said, if you can raise the other 300, I'll give you a hundred, you can buy these sneakers. And he's like, how am I supposed to do that? And he's like, well, what chores can I do?

And I'm like, no, no, can't be for me. You can't raise the money from me or your father. You have to find a way to raise the money from other people. And so he came up with his first business. And so he created a business [00:30:00] from it. And he started like painting mailboxes in the neighborhood, pressure washing, like doing neighborhood tasks.

He could ride his bike there. It was during COVID. He just had a little QR code. So he, you know, that, so people can scan it. He didn't have to see them person, you know, like in person. So. He would do the job, send him a QR code. They would just pay him on Venmo. And then that was it. And so he, he raised the money.

And then at the end of it, when he raised all the money that he needed, he decided then I don't want to spend 400 on shoes. That's too much money. I worked too hard

Doris Jackson Shazier: for it. They always do. But such an important lesson kudos to you, because that was so great for him to experience. Like he knows how to go and make money.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, and he knows that it's up to

Doris Jackson Shazier: him.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, like if I would have just handed him the 400, that would have been really easy and he would have learned nothing, right? And so, um, he, he would learn no lessons from that. He would just learn that, you know, if I want something and I complain enough, I'll just get it.

Right.

Both: And

Angela Gennari: that's not what I wanted to [00:31:00] teach him. But he always says, like he used to say when he was younger, Why are you so much harder on me? Nobody else has to do this. Everybody else, you know, his parents will agree to do 400, like whatever. And he's had the privilege of living in a nicer area where, you know, these kids can get a lot of what they want, but he's not that kid.

So, uh, he has accountability. And so, I love it.

Both: Mm hmm.

Angela Gennari: And I always used to say it's because I'm raising a man and they're raising boys, you know, at 18 years old, I want you to feel that independence, that confidence that, you know, that ability to go out and take on the world without having to be raised by your, by your spouse, by your, by your employer, by your friends.

So it's really important that I teach you these lessons now, because if I don't teach you these lessons, somebody else will have to finish raising you later.

Doris Jackson Shazier: We share the same perspective in it. So I, I love that because I'm very big on, we're not raising children. You're [00:32:00] actually raising adults. You are

Angela Gennari: raising adults because at some point, if you let your child continue to be a child until they're 18, then at some point they have to be an adult.

And the world is going to shock them and I want my child to feel confident going into situations like right now He's he's so independent and like there there will be simple things like he's trying to You know do some repairs to his car and so I put something on facebook I'm, like, do you want me to reach out to these people?

He's like, no, no, no. No. I'll i'll handle it You know i'll take care of Whatever needs to be taken care of. Oh man. You gave him such a gift. Yeah. Well, and that confidence, that confidence to have these conversations, the confidence to go out into the world and take on what you need to take on and to be somebody who can be a leader and not is just going to follow into, you know, fall into being a follower because they've had, they've been a follower all their lives and not a leader.

Doris Jackson Shazier: Spot on. Perfect. I mean, so that's exactly kind of what I teach people. I help them come to those realizations [00:33:00] so that they can be more impactful, you know, at home or with their children and then more impactful at work. Like some, I have people that spoon feed adults all the time

Angela Gennari: and I'm like, Hey,

Doris Jackson Shazier: you do realize that you're going to always have to keep doing that instead of teaching them kind of how to fish for themselves.

And so as a coach, that's kind of how I partner with people. To be able to lead their teams. I primarily work with leaders. And so most of my clientele, yeah, just the majority of my clientele, they're all in an executive or leadership roles or they're small business owners. And so, because of my experience in leading people, I've had teams as small as five, as large as 10, 000.

I'm able to partner with them on how to put systems and practices and properly coach the people that they're responsible for. And that's

Angela Gennari: such a gift. It's such a gift to be able to do that for someone and teach them how to not just spoon feed [00:34:00] their employees, not just give them everything, not, not, not take on all the tasks themselves because by giving somebody else the ability to succeed, you build their confidence and you build their accountability and all of those things help them to become more successful.

just a better employee, a better leader, a better child, a better everything. So I think teaching those, those skills is a real gift.

Both: Definitely.

Angela Gennari: So tell me what, um, what obstacles have you overcome in starting your, your business, um, coming from the corporate world? Well, I think the biggest

Doris Jackson Shazier: one is mindset.

Mmm, yep. Starting a business is, and I just posted this yesterday, starting a business is hard, um, working in a job you hate is harder, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Um, so I think the mental obstacles is, is the biggest, the biggest one. Um, I, I worked in, I, I, I grew up in, uh, a workforce where, you know, titles matter.

Mm hmm. Income [00:35:00] matter, you know, how many employees you have, like all of those things matter to me for a very long time. So I worked really hard to achieve the positions that I had. I worked really hard to get to, you know, a six figures salary that was very comfortable and gave me the lifestyle that I really wanted.

And to start this business, I had to change the way I valued those things.

Both: And

Doris Jackson Shazier: so those things are still valuable. In, in, in some ways in some context, but they're not as valuable to me in this space or in this season that I'm going into in my business. I'm now a rising star again.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. I'm

Doris Jackson Shazier: up and coming again.

So I'm not the most seasoned person in the room. Like I've had the privilege of being for quite some time. Um, so I had to change my mindset. It took a lot of humility to say, You're not going to get the every two week deposit that you've gotten for 20 years. I've been gainfully employed for 20 years straight.

No interruption of employment, [00:36:00] which is amazing to be able to stay. Like I literally, I cannot recall a time where I did not have a deposit every two weeks in a 20 year span. Wow. And so when you talk about adjusting my mindset and saying, okay, you're going to walk, you're walking away from that now because you're betting on yourself.

Yeah. It takes, it's a complete mindset shift.

Angela Gennari: Yes, it is. Wow. Good for you. I would say

Doris Jackson Shazier: that's the biggest, that's the biggest. Yeah. And once you change your mindset and the way that you think about it, Everything else comes a little bit easier. Like you can, you can kind of, it's palatable. Everything else you can kind of really tolerate.

Once you get your mind wrapped around it, that's the most important thing. Absolutely. So what advice would you give to your

Angela Gennari: 18

Doris Jackson Shazier: year old self? Ooh,

my 18 year old self struggled with perfectionism. [00:37:00] Um, I, I struggled a lot with perfectionism. I, I, I grew up in inner city, Miami. So very, very urban, very urban. You think about the show first 48, uh, with the detectives, like, yeah, yeah. So that's the neighborhood that I grew up in. For so much of my life, I just wanted to make it out.

Like the biggest goal was to make it out. And I made a great decision in going to Coral Gables high, which I had to catch a bus and the Metro rail and walk every day to get to school. So I left every day at five 30 in the morning, not to go to the school that was blocks away from my house.

Both: Um,

Doris Jackson Shazier: because I, I wanted opportunity.

Like I wanted to be somewhere different. And Going to Coral Gables did give me a lot of great exposure to this world being so much bigger than the neighborhood I had been growing up in. And if I had to go back to my 18 year old self, I would definitely say, kudos, good job. Because most [00:38:00] of those times I still felt like I wasn't doing enough.

Yeah. Even though I was getting up 5. 30 in the morning, going to the school, doing all these extra things, applying for scholarships, I got a full scholarship. To college. I just still felt like I wasn't doing enough.

Both: Um,

Doris Jackson Shazier: so yeah, my 18 year old self, I'll say, chill out. You're doing just fine. You got it. Worry less.

It will all come together. It does not have to be perfect. I mean, and when I really think about it, a year later, I ended up pregnant and it felt like the world was crashing because again, I had worked so hard to be the first one to graduate high school without a child in my family for five generations.

The first to go to college in my family. And so I felt like I just had the weight of the world on me. Um, and in some ways getting pregnant, it liberated me from [00:39:00] perfectionism because I couldn't be perfect anymore. And it's like, everybody can see this bump. Like, it's nothing that you can hide. Right. You can't do anything in the dark.

Like, you're not perfect anymore. Yeah. And it hurt. It was devastating, but it liberated me. It freed me to then live a little bit more authentically. Wow,

Angela Gennari: that is powerful and I, I can so relate to that because when you were, when you were saying, I want something different for myself and you were kind of putting yourself into different situations and I did the same thing.

I grew up in an inner city school, um, in Pennsylvania. And I, you know, thankfully my mom would like drive me out to, you know, A different city for cheerleading. You know, I could have done the inner city cheerleading with my school and all my classmates, but she drove me far away. Um, I went to a little modeling school far away.

I went to summer camp far away. And so all of these [00:40:00] opportunities to get myself out of it, just to change what I know to be reality. Because if I were just to stay in my own reality of like my, my inner city school, I think my life would have been different. You know, I wouldn't have seen what was. out there, what I could strive for, because all I, you know, it's like, all you can see is what's in front of you when you're a child, it's harder to imagine what else is there.

And so by changing your environment, even just slightly, you can, your mind starts to expand what is possible.

Doris Jackson Shazier: Yeah, that exposure matters.

Angela Gennari: Yes, that's why I

Doris Jackson Shazier: love to travel so much, especially with my kids.

Angela Gennari: Yes, yes, absolutely. Exposure definitely

Doris Jackson Shazier: matters.

Angela Gennari: Mm hmm. So as women, we give our power away all the time.

So it could be something, and I'm sure in the corporate world, that probably happened.

Doris Jackson Shazier: It happens, yeah.

Angela Gennari: Um, so, you know, is there a time that you gave your power away that was really pivotal to you? And then another time that you've stepped into your power? [00:41:00]

Doris Jackson Shazier: I think, again, I've always had earlier in my career, I struggle with perfectionism and authenticity.

And one of the things that I would do is almost assimilate, right? I think right now is easier in, in the climate has been created somewhat for people to just be who they are as minorities. But for a very long time, it was so important to blend in and fit in.

Angela Gennari: Right. And

Doris Jackson Shazier: so I like to tell people I went almost 10 years without wearing braids as an African American woman because someone who was being very helpful told me it could impact my promotability.

Wow. And they weren't being mean. They were just being real. They cared for me. They wanted to see me promoted and they didn't want anything to get in the way, but they knew that I may be judged if I, by my appearance, if I looked a certain way. Right. [00:42:00] And so I, I fed into that. Um, and I regret feeding into that, you know, they may have been right.

They may have been, it probably was valid. Um, it's probably the thing that it removed one of those barriers or obstacles, but I really wish that I would have had the confidence and the courage to just be mean and still get there, but I always hate that I altered myself a little bit. I changed the way I spoke.

Sometimes, um, I did all these things to assimilate and to be more digestible for other people so that I could move up the ladder. And for me, it was about representation because someone has to be able to get there so that you can, you know, climb as you live. Right. Right. And so I remember when I saw the first black woman in a high ranking position in that company and what it did for me, it made it possible.

And so for me, it was more important to get a [00:43:00] seat at the table or get into the rooms or get into those spaces so that people can see that it's possible to get there. And there were moments that I shrunk myself and I altered myself to do it.

Both: Right. And

Doris Jackson Shazier: so I hate that I kind of gave it my power in certain situations to be able to move forward.

Um, but it was for the greater good. Like I had my reasons. It was for the, for the greater good, but I just hate that I had to do it in order to move, or I felt compelled to do it.

Angela Gennari: Right.

Doris Jackson Shazier: Um, and so as I matured in my career. You know, this is where I was able to utilize my power because now I was in a position of authority.

So at my last company, I was the president of the Diversity Council, in which I created safe spaces for minority employees within the company to come and talk about some of the things that they were experiencing. And then I was able to convey that information to senior leadership [00:44:00] so that we can create programs and processes or solutions to make it better for those employees.

Angela Gennari: That's an amazing way to give back. So then I

Doris Jackson Shazier: was able to use my power, you know? Yeah,

Angela Gennari: yeah, absolutely. What a great way to give back and to open those doors for other people. I think that that's just amazing, and I think not enough people in leadership do that. They don't reach back to pull people up, and you know, you did that, so good for you.

That's amazing. Thank you. So, um, I've really enjoyed our conversation Doris. You're just, I just love talking to you. Um, but can you just tell me one more thing? What do you wish more people knew?

Doris Jackson Shazier: What I wish more people knew. Ooh, that's a good question. There's so much to that, right?

Angela Gennari: I know.

Doris Jackson Shazier: So I'm going to frame it in terms of leadership.

Okay. What I wish more people knew was that leadership isn't about titles or even authority. Right. [00:45:00] Okay. It's about influence. Yes. And anybody can be a leader. And so I talk about in my book, Raising Justice, I talk about how my daughter led me back to Christ. She wanted to join a church and she would not sit down and she wanted to take that walk down and my husband and I followed.

Good. But she led us. And so you can be led by a child if you listen close enough. You can, it's about influence. It's about being open. And so what I wish more people understood is leadership isn't a title or it's not just about authority. It's about your ability to influence others.

Angela Gennari: Wow. Mm hmm. That is so true and so powerful.

So I have just found you to be so delightful and insightful. So thank you so much for your time. Um, you've been an amazing guest. So how can people find you? All

Doris Jackson Shazier: right. So I'll make it super easy, right? My name, DorisJasonShazier. [00:46:00] com. Um, you'll hear more about who I am, my motherhood journey, and then also the book Raising Justice.

And I'll also be putting upcoming books there. And then also my website, chaser coaching consult. com. Um, and, and that has primarily all the, um, offerings and things that I have with my coaching and consulting business. I'm also on Facebook, my name, I'm also on Instagram. And TikTok, she's your coaching console.

And you can also find me on LinkedIn. So I'm very, very social and colorful online. So definitely look me up. Awesome.

Angela Gennari: I appreciate it. Well, thank you so much for your time today and, um, everyone, you can also find her on, uh, pretty powerful podcast. com. So if you don't remember the links, um, please feel free to visit the website and we will make sure all of Doris's links are on there as well.

So thank you so much for joining me. Um, and we hope everybody has an amazing day and we look forward to seeing you next time.

Intro: Thank you for [00:47:00] joining our guests on the pretty powerful podcast, and we hope you've gained new insight and learn from exceptional women. Remember to subscribe or check out this and all episodes on pretty powerful podcast.

com visit us next time. And until then, step into your own power.