Episode 124: Daphne Leger

Daphne Leger

Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the pretty powerful podcast. Where powerful women are interviewed every week to share real inspiring stories and incredible insight to help women or anyone break the barriers, be a part of innovation, shatter the glass ceiling, and dominate to the top of their sport industry, or life's mission.

Join us as we celebrate exceptional women and step into our power. And now here's your host, Angela Gennari.

Angela Gennari: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Pretty Powerful Podcast. My name is Angela Gennari and I'm here with Daphne Leger. Hi Daphne.

Daphne Leger: Hi Angela. Thanks so much for sharing your audience with me.

Angela Gennari: Yes, my pleasure.

So Daphne Legge is the founder of, I'm gonna Say This wrong, ve. Pretty good. Pretty

Both: good

Angela Gennari: is an in, uh, she is an innovation and change expert, a trilingual global nomad. She started off in France, [00:01:00] spent many years in the United States and is now based in Mexico. She has a background in international development and MBA from Harvard Business School and an and extensive experience in leadership positions in startups, in the technology, healthcare, and entertainment sectors.

Daphne has given numerous innovation conferences, courses and workshops on innovation and change to audiences around the world. She is also a professor, teacher, and mentor through various global executive education programs. Amazing. What a background I. Thanks Angela. So, okay, so I, I don't even know where to start.

I feel like there's just so many things I wanna dive into. So were you born in France or were you moved there?

Daphne Leger: I was born and initially raised in France. That's where the story begins.

Angela Gennari: Okay, beautiful. And so French is your first language? That's right. Okay. And then you came to the United States, I'm assuming there was college involved 'cause you went to Harvard.

Daphne Leger: Yes. Uh, yes. Many years later. [00:02:00] 'cause we, the first time I moved to the US I was seven.

Angela Gennari: Oh wow. Okay, cool.

Daphne Leger: Yeah. Yeah. But then, yes, I did all my studies in the us.

Angela Gennari: Okay. Very nice. And now you live in beautiful Mexico. That's where do you live in Mexico? That's right. Mexico City. Oh, beautiful. I love that. Um, I actually, uh, have been there a few times and I love it.

It's such a cosmopolitan city and I think it's just one of the most beautiful but giant. International cities I've been to. I'm so glad that you

Daphne Leger: know it and that you appreciate it. I, I think it's one of the most awesome cities in the world and still underrated, even though it's very much on the map these days for most people.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. Well, what was so interesting to me when I was there is it's just such a cultural hub and it is really the, the center for business for Latin America.

Daphne Leger: Yeah, it really is. It's true. That's why it's, uh, it's beautiful. That's, it's an exciting place to call home base.

Angela Gennari: It was actually the first international trip I took my son on, so.

Oh, exciting. We were working with a, uh, a client [00:03:00] who had an event in Mexico. It was a golf channel and they were doing a, a golf tournament in Mexico City. And um, I had gone there when I was. Um, pregnant actually. And so to kind of do the pre-planning and then when the actual tournament was going on, my son was, he was uh, gonna be five months old, so we had to go have his, uh, passport photo taken.

Uh, 'cause we decided to bring him with us 'cause he was still very, very little and wanted to, you know, he was still breastfeeding and, you know, wanted to not be away from him. And so getting his passport photo was hysterical. 'cause I had to hold him up. He hadn't like quite gotten the sitting up thing down.

Daphne Leger: That's adorable and amazing.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, so Mexico City was his very first international trip. This is very cool. Off to a good start. Yes. Agreed. So, um, so anyway, so you, uh, studied international business. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about what drew you to international business besides being so, such a great global citizen, obviously.

Daphne Leger: Yeah, so I [00:04:00] actually started by studying international relations mm-hmm. And development. And that was very much as you said, it kind of everything set me up to study that, you know, my, my, my life, my upbringing. It just, I was super drawn to the concept of anything international. And then having a positive impact was also something really important to me.

Um, and so. Yeah, that's what I studied initially, and I worked in that for a few years, but then I started feeling like the way that I wanted to have impact was through business, and I was missing that kind of toolkit. And so that's why I went and did the MBA to kind of complement the international piece with the business piece.

So I did the MBA because I felt like I needed that in order to then use business as a way to have impact.

Angela Gennari: Very cool. So talk to me a little bit about what. Impact you're talking about. So when you're, when you're saying, I wanna go have an impact, right? So globally, tell me what that looks like.

Daphne Leger: Yeah, so it's definitely evolved.

What's been constant is that that's a driving force for me and, and kind of a motivator [00:05:00] and a purpose, I would say. Mm-hmm. But it's evolved a lot. So when it started out, which is why I think I started with international relations and development, I wanted to, you know, um, work in developing countries and help, uh, them develop their economies and, and all that.

Um, and I did that for a while, but then I started realizing I liked that the way. Um, business had a much more kind of direct and almost, I would say, transparent and honest impact, if I can say that that way. And what I mean by that is that when you treat people like customers, then you have to meet their needs and their demands.

And I found that for me personally, that was a more compelling dynamic and relationship than treating people as beneficiaries or recipients of. Aid or something like that. So that's why that kind I switched to the business side of things. I liked how it was, you know, yes, maybe some people don't have as much, but what they do have, they're gonna be very careful about spending it on the right thing that's really responding to their problem.

And that really resonated with me about how. [00:06:00] Honest, it would make the people like me on the other side trying to create services, products, solutions to, to big problems. So that's why, uh, that that kind of first shift in impact happened. And then I, I worked in that for, for quite a few years in different startups and social enterprises that we're looking to have impact at the base of the pyramid, as we call it.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um. And then after that I started feeling like, oh, the way that I'm personally, like very personally having the most impact is when I'm helping people rethink, uh, re-understand or learn something new. That kind of, I, I found myself feeling like I was turning people's light bulbs on. Yeah. And that really started to feel like impact for me.

Mm-hmm. And so that was kind of the. Third and I think the latest shift in what I call impact. And now for me today, that's what impact is. Impact is helping people change their minds and kind of expand their minds to realize their full potential. And so today, I would say I have impact by unlocking people's potential, [00:07:00] by turning on their light bulbs.

Angela Gennari: I love that. That's really cool, and I love that you changed the mindset and it was basically a whole paradigm shift of I'm going to treat people like customers and not recipients, or beneficiaries, because you're absolutely right. There's so much value in seeing that. Uh, what you can contribute to somebody has to have value, right?

Because I think that so many people look at, oh, well, when I'm providing a service, they're just happy to get whatever I give them. And that's not true. Like you have to, what you have has to have value to that person, and you start thinking about it much more intimately when you're thinking, how can I add enough value that they want me in their lives helping?

I.

Daphne Leger: Yeah. Absolutely. And I love that you bring that up because, um, a as, as an innovation expert, people often ask me, you know, so what's the definition of innovation? Mm-hmm. And it's this word that's gotten used too much these days, and it means everything and nothing.

Both: Right? Right. And so

Daphne Leger: I try to go back to kind of the [00:08:00] essence and the, and the basics, if you will.

And for me. Innovation is any new solution that adds value or solves a problem for someone. Mm-hmm. And if it's doing that, then check. For me, it's innovation. It doesn't matter if it's super techie or not at all. You know if you've seen it before. Mm-hmm. Or if it's a reinterpretation of something that already existed because for the end user or customer, all of that doesn't matter.

As long as it's adding value or solving a problem, then we're on the other side. And so I try to go back to that essence and help people see that's what innovation is all about really.

Angela Gennari: Right. I love it. Well, and you know, innovation could be just as something as simple as finding an efficiency, right? Like, Hey, I see that you're doing this in six steps.

I think you can do it in three. And you know, that's innovative. You're saving some, somebody some time and effort or money or something. There's, there's innovation there. Even if it's just something really simple and mundane that nobody is really like, oh yeah, well that's simple. Why are we going around this, you know?

Problem. So I love that hundred percent. So [00:09:00] you, you really kind of drive this, this idea of, you know, initiating change. So people hate change, don't they? I mean, don't they really push back on that? So how do you get people into the mindset to be open to change?

Daphne Leger: Yeah. Um, so I should maybe back up and say why I even got into this, because it's a, yeah.

It's a bit of a leap, or it's maybe a little jump a hop, but, um, so I, I really started my whole career in, uh, well, first of all, impact as we talked about, and then it morphed into business and then innovation. Yeah. Uh, and then the, the latest kind of leap has been, uh, towards change, as you said. Mm-hmm. And it's because I started to realize that.

I grew up in a very particular way with constant change. Uh, as we started to chat about a bit, you know, I moved around a lot within France, then to the us then to India, Canada, and then I just kept going as soon as I could, Uhhuh. And so it kind of developed a very particular relationship for me with change.

Almost an [00:10:00] addiction, I would say. Yeah. And then when I started working in innovation, I started to realize, just like you said, uh, you know, you have to go through change to get to innovation, and yet. People do not like that part of it. Mm-hmm. They, they really, you know, have this initial reaction that's very negative against change and it's totally normal, but it, it, it got me fascinated to realize we were not on the same page Yeah.

When it came to change. And so I started kind of studying, analyzing this topic, talking to all the experts, writing a book. And I, today I use all that knowledge about change to help others kind of prepare for the future. Because for me. That's what this concept that I'm using called changeability is it's, it's preparing you for the future and, and indeed most people.

Are not prepared for the future right now? No. 'cause they're not changeable. Uh, and we can talk about, you know, why do we have that initial reaction to change? For sure. The, the first thing that I would say is it's totally normal and natural. It's the most human thing in the world. Mm-hmm. To be resistant to change.

And, and I don't [00:11:00] think that it's that, oh, some humans resist change and others don't. We are all there sometimes. Mm-hmm. We all resist some changes sometimes. Mm-hmm. It's just then what do you, you know, how do you overcome that to keep moving forward?

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Well, and I think that when you're talking about change, I mean, it can be a cultural thing, right?

So you, you have traveled extensively and so sometimes there, there's, um, an unwillingness to change because they, this is how their parents did it. This is how their grandparents did it, you know, this is how ancestors have done it before them. And then when you get into the business world, you realize that's how the CEO learned to do it.

And then that they learned from that CEO and the next. In line, it's gonna do it this way. And then you get the phrase of this is how it's always been done, which I hate that phrase.

Daphne Leger: It's a really common one. Yeah. It ends up being the reason not to change or innovate in anything. Um, yeah. Pretty, pretty common and standard.

Mm-hmm. You're hinting at something, Angela, that I wanna double click on, which is, um, the idea of how exposed to change you've been. [00:12:00] Yes. So clearly I was brought up, incredibly exposed to change, and then I just kept going. Mm-hmm. Um, I don't think it was part of a master plan, that's just the way that it ended up happening.

Right. Um, but I, I think that there's, uh. There's something that happens the more you are exposed to change, and also something that happens when you're never exposed to change. And it turns out that there's this concept in psychology that I don't know if you've heard of, called Exposure therapy Uhhuh. I have heard of that.

And it's the idea. Yeah. So the, the most, the example I like the most is people who are afraid of heights. Right. Um, you know, we, we can help them work through that. And it'll start with something as simple as, look at this photo of a, a view from a skyscraper. Mm. And then, okay, now that you've done that, go to the second floor of a building and uh, look out the window.

And then you know what? Next we're gonna go stand on the balcony of the fifth floor, and so on and so forth. And as you get exposed, you kind of learn to manage your reaction and you eventually change that, you know, very deep [00:13:00] kind of ingrained reaction. And I think the same can happen with change. I've been doing it.

First unconsciously I was, you know, it was done to me and then I just kept going. And I've been helping others now kind of redefine their relationship to change, um, through this exposure because I think that's the, that's the best way. Of course, if you've never been exposed to change, when it comes for you, and it will, it's gonna be difficult and you're not gonna react well.

And if you've been practicing with little changes in, you know, your everyday life, then you're much better equipped to deal with change when it comes.

Angela Gennari: Well, and I love that you can, you know, this is professional and personal, right? Like so many people struggle with this idea of, you know, I don't wanna leave this really, really toxic relationship because it's all I've ever known.

Or, you know, I don't want to separate from my family, even though it's not the right environment for me to thrive because, you know, this is a routine and they don't wanna change where they go to work, even though they don't enjoy their job and they. Feel like it's, you know, it's, [00:14:00] it's taking away from their life because they don't want to change.

And I think change gives you that, that, uh, the blessing of like, newness, right? Like, I love change. I, I have like a cycle of like seven to 10 years, which at, at that point, something drastic has to change in my life, right? So I have that like. Seven to 10 year itch where it's like, okay, I've been doing this for 10 years now.

What else? You know, give me something else. Throw something at me. You know, give me, give me a new challenge. And so, you know, and, and you don't have to make a drastic change. I'm not saying, you know, go get divorced every 10 years. I'm saying, you know, just refresh, do, do, just something simple that gives you, you know, some, some kind of that viability again.

Daphne Leger: A hundred percent. Um, so the things that you were mentioning, um, are things that I've been studying and analyzing and helping PE people through recently, which are kind of the reasons we resist initially, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, the first step that I always advise when we're dealing with change for yourself or with others as a leader mm-hmm.

[00:15:00] Is map the reaction. Really. Oh, interesting. You know, figure it out for yourself or, or for others. And so when you're mapping that initial reaction, you're gonna look for, you know, what are the fears or the biases that are making me think about certain things that I will lose and maybe not see certain gains?

Because it really comes down to that we always do a little bit of mental math when we're faced with a change and it's what are the losses and what are the gains? Yeah. And we are, we think we're incredibly rational. Right. And we are in the sense that it's very clear, you know, equation if the gains outweigh the losses I'm in.

Mm-hmm. And if the losses outweigh the gains, this is not for me. Mm. The only problem is that in that evaluation, that's where all those biases and fears come in. And so one of the ones that you mentioned is, is fascinated, fascinating. Sorry. And it's the mere exposure effect or the famili familiarity principle.

And it's the idea of just because we know something, we like it. Better, even though it's probably not great for us. Right. Right. That, or we don't. And so some of the examples you were giving, it's kinda like, you know, I've [00:16:00] been here, I've been in this situation for a while, it's what I know. Mm-hmm.

Both: I

Daphne Leger: don't really like it.

It's, you know, doing me harm or it's not unlocking all the potential I have, but it's what I know. And so, getting past that and realizing, wait, but aren't there some gains on the other side of this change that you are? Not really giving, you know, space or weight to, and maybe the losses, you're kind of over-indexing on those.

We tend to think we, you know, we're gonna lose everything and it's gonna be terribly painful. And so the first thing is understanding that and yeah, okay. It's a little bit irrational, so you might recognize that in yourself. Mm-hmm. Or in others. But it is the reason for the reaction. And so first you have to understand it.

And if you ever wanna do what I would call the second step, which is recalibrate that reaction.

Angela Gennari: Yes. So, you know, I deal with this in my business world as well. Like we have, um, we, we go to bid on something and we know that the, the, the client is unhappy with their current provider, right? So I own a security company.

We know they're unhappy, we know they have all these issues, and so we submit a bid, they're. So excited about all the things that we [00:17:00] do. They're so like, yeah, this all sounds great. Our provider doesn't do any of these things. And then they go and resign with their other provider, and we're like, what happened?

And it's one of those, it's the devil, you know? Versus the devil you don't. It's like, I already know what all their. Shortcomings are, and while this sounds good, I don't know what yours are yet. Right. And so, hundred percent.

Daphne Leger: So I've been, uh, as I was, uh, writing the, the book, uh, future Proof, I, I kind of looked for the, the cultural aspects of this, and I found some version of the saying that you just shared.

In every single language. Really it's this universal human truth. Interesting that we are, you know, afraid of the unknown. Mm-hmm. And don't really wanna delve into it. Mm. And would rather stick to what we know. And it makes total sense. I also wanna give some credit and its place to fear. You know, fear keeps us alive.

Yeah. That's what it's for. And it's, uh, for, for you and I and anyone who's listening, it's done a very good job to date. That's why we're here. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So you, so you do wanna say, you know, thank you. Fear for keeping me safe [00:18:00] and, and, and, you know, uh, avoiding my demise and also. Sometimes you overreact, sometimes you overdo it, right?

Yes. And so, and so recognizing that, that sometimes it's on, you know, you know, hyper drive and we need to tone it down. Yeah. And think a little bit more carefully about those potential gains. Like the client that you were talking about, of course some of their evaluation was, oh, the switching costs, you know, it's just gonna be such a nuisance to switch to another.

Provider and have to start all over again. And so those are real losses that are there if they decide to, to switch, they're real, right. But it's just that they're, you know, this big compared to what they're imagining this gargantuan switch to be. Right. Um, and, and this idea also of sunk costs, that's another bias that we have that most of us are familiar with.

Right. Of like, I've already put so much into this other provider. It's not great, but we've been doing this for years and so I've gotta keep going. Mm-hmm. That is totally irrational. And yet we all apply that thinking, uh, and it keeps us away from making changes [00:19:00] that in, in, you know, in my book. Change is the path to a better future.

It always is. If you think about anything that's been an improvement in your life, it had to come through change. Yes. So there's always that moment that's a little bit painful and uncomfortable that you have to go through to get on the other side.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. Well, and when you're, when you're dealing with like, let's just say, um, you know, making a change, you, you've learned how to compensate, right?

Like you've counterbalanced. The issues. So it's like, well, I know that, you know, I'm having these struggles, but I've already learned how to work with them. 'cause I just overstaff here, I just do this, or I just manage this and I just, you know, I over, you know, I, I cut the budget here so that I can compensate there.

Like they've already learned how to counter counterbalance whatever the issues are. And now coming into a new provider, they're like. We've learned how to work with all the bad things and, and so now we have a system that works and it's like, does it work though? Does it or does it not work? And you've just been tolerating a really bad system for a really long time because of the fear of [00:20:00] change and because of the fear of like, well, I mean, we've learned how to work.

Through these issues, so it should be fine. And you know, we're, we're, we're in a good place is what they usually say. We're in a good place. I'm like, no, how good of a place. I know.

Daphne Leger: Yeah. And is good, good enough, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, and a lot of times change is about unlocking the next level and the potential that's untapped.

And so it's, it's for better. And so, yeah. Good. Yeah. You're good. Yeah. Is that where you wanna stay? Yeah. Uh, or, or could we do better? Right. Right. Can we be great? Yeah, exactly. Does does great. Sound good. Maybe we could do that. Exactly. Um, another thing that I, that I work through a lot and, and that I've been analyzing and studying is that transition.

Mm. Most people don't like change. Not really because of what will eventually be, but because of the process to get there, they know that it's gonna be, you know, costly, timely, painful, dis, you know, disturbing, whatever it might be. And so we just don't wanna go through the hassle. Yeah. And so I think. My what, what's clear to me If, if you wanna.

Change more yourself to [00:21:00] get to a better future and help others change. You have to anticipate that transition. Yeah. And in, in change management, it's often called, you know, the messy middle or the chaotic transition or whatever cute name you wanna put on a very painful moment that you have to go through.

Both: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I

Daphne Leger: think that if we can all anticipate that, then we can manage it proactively so much better. Right. So if it was with my potential, you know, client, it's okay. So the first. Three weeks of us working together are gonna be a little painful. How, how can I make it less painful for you? Right.

And sometimes that might mean, um, there's this concept in the tech world of Hypercare, which I love 'cause I think we should apply it in other places. And it's the idea of, you know, kind of doubling down on giving extra customer support just during that transition. Interesting. Because they know, especially in technology adoption, that if they don't get it right in those first few weeks.

Everyone's just gonna give up on this new technology and go back to the old way. And so they, they kind of put in way more than reasonable support at the very beginning. And [00:22:00] then they start kind of getting back hands off when they know that people can handle the new situation. And so I think we should be doing hypercare with ourselves and with others in any kind of change.

I love, love that concept to help ourselves through the transition.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, absolutely. No, I think that's brilliant. And you know, we're not doing enough of that in our day-to-day lives. You know, even simple changes that we could, we could be like, you know what, I'm gonna give myself grace, because that's another word that we don't use enough is grace.

I'm gonna give myself grace through this process, you know, and it's, I. Even just going to the gym. I'm gonna develop a new routine. I'm gonna go to the gym, you know, four days a week, this is gonna be my routine. But you, you fail one time, you, you oversleep one time and you're like, ah, forget it. I won't do it.

But you gotta give yourself a little grace. And that hypercare concept is brilliant because you can apply that to yourself. And say, I'm going through a change. I need to give myself a little extra care right now and support and, and not beat myself up constantly because things aren't at a hundred percent already.

Daphne Leger: [00:23:00] Exactly. And the, the data shows that when you go through a change, mostly organizations, but of course it applies to humans that are part of those organizations. There is a dip in performance. Mm-hmm. Which is why everyone hates change because they know things are gonna be harder before they get better.

Mm-hmm. And so having that grace for yourself and with others of we're it's gonna, it's gonna be a little bit harder before it gets better, and we're kind of building that into the plan of the change. Mm-hmm. You know, it just. Makes things so much more smooth. So I think it's super important to, I, I love that you use the word grace.

Yes. Have grace with yourself and with others as you transition through any change.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Well, and what I think is really important, and I've read a few books on change because I, I joke that I, I've been operating my company as a startup for the past 10 years because I like constant change and, and constant change keeps us hungry and it keeps us aware of what's happening.

And, you know, we pivot when we need to pivot. But, um, but it can be exhausting for people or. Sorry, my microphone went out for a minute. But it [00:24:00] can be exhausting for other people. And so, you know, when you're, when you find that, just communicate, you know, communicate, communicate, communicate. This is what we're doing, we're gonna give each other a little grace.

Let's talk about what we're going through and, you know, share. If, if something is bothering us or something, something's not sitting right. Like, let's share that information so that we can stay on top of it and not. Build resentment and not build fear and not build, you know, this, this wall of, you know, resentment to change.

Daphne Leger: Yeah. A hundred percent. There's uh, there's this concept of change fatigue Oh. Which is important to, to kind of have as leaders, which is at some point I. You know, your people will just be like, that's enough. Like, yeah, there, there were five changes last year or last month or whatever. I, I can't take anymore.

I'm not even, you know, on board on those. And there's more coming. So we have to be super careful about that because change is difficult. Mm-hmm. And as you know, a change addict and lover as I am, I'm gonna tell you, it doesn't get easier. It's not that change is easy for me now, it's just that I have this, um.[00:25:00]

Confidence, if you will. I know that I'm always gonna get through it because I've gone through it so many times and I kind of know the more or less the path and the steps. But it's always difficult by its very nature. And so there is such a thing as change fatigue for all of us. Uh, another thing that I think is helpful for ourselves and as leaders is, um, when everything is changing or when something is changing, it's important to also focus on what's not changing.

Mm. Yeah. That gives people so much, you know, serenity and stability within that chaos that we talked about to say, yes, this, you know, a is changing. But b is gonna stay the same.

Both: Yeah. And

Daphne Leger: so I also advise that for, for us, you know, for ourselves when we're going through change and we feel like we're, you know, kind of getting the rug pulled out from under us or things are just unstable is okay, but what is still the same?

Mm. And what routines can I kind of hold onto to mark that stability and give myself the stability that I need? We all need stability, uh, within, you know, and around the things that are changing. And I [00:26:00] think that's, that's somewhat helpful.

Angela Gennari: Yeah.

Daphne Leger: Um. And I wanna double click on a point that you said Angela, about communication.

Mm-hmm. Just because it's fascinating as I've been researching this, uh, in pretty much every change initiative, when you ask the leaders if they've done enough communication, their answer is, oh my gosh, we did so much communication. You know, check. Yeah. And then you ask the people and they. Always say it wasn't enough.

It's, wow, we don't really understand what's going on. It's not clear. And so it's, it's to such a big point that you can see that there's a disconnect there.

Angela Gennari: Yeah,

Daphne Leger: and what I found analyzing this is one of the key explanations is as we go through change, we're in a moment of stress.

Angela Gennari: Mm. Right.

Daphne Leger: And when you're stressed, you do not process information as effectively.

And so interesting. When your organization or your leader tells you something once, you know, it's kind of like in one ear out the other. Yeah. Because you're, you're just dealing with so much. And so that's why we have this concept, which sounds so strange of. Over communicating. You have to over communicate because [00:27:00] people are not as receptive or not processing as effectively as usual, because change is stressful.

Yeah. So having that empathy and doing that extra work as, as leaders, and when I say leader, it could be in your family. Right. Um, just to, to help people get through that, that transition and that change is super important.

Angela Gennari: Well, and I think everybody takes communication differently. Like I might send out seven emails about something, but then I'll have, you know, some staff that are like, well, you never told us that.

I'm like, I literally like seven emails. I was spamming you. And they're like, yeah, but you didn't say it at our last meeting. And I'm like. But I was, that wasn't the topic of our meeting. And so, yeah, so some people need to see, some people need to hear, some people need to read. And so you have to meet people where they are.

And that's a big factor when it comes to change is, you know, our level of comfort is different. You know, not everybody is gonna be able to like, oh, I can dive into this email and read it and understand it. Some people need to see it to understand it. Some people need to feel it to understand it. Some people [00:28:00] need to, you know, uh, see a video.

You know, versus read an email. So, you know, there's, there's a lot that, you know, you have to meet people where they are and so that they can digest change at the same rate that you want them to, um, kind of experience what you're experiencing. A

Daphne Leger: hundred percent. And the thing that I would add to that is, uh, two things.

First of all. Uh, they won't all process it and experience it the same time in the same way. And so, you know, hoping that everyone is on the same page in your organization is not gonna be realistic. So it's important to start to say, oh look, this group is onboard and we're ready to go. Yeah. And this other group needs a little bit more of that hypercare handholding mm-hmm.

That we had talked about to get there, right? Yeah. Yeah. And. This group is not there and is not gonna get there, doesn't wanna get there. And then we have to manage that as well. And that brings me to the second point, which is this idea of like mapping the people, um, that are going through the change or the stakeholders as we, as we say in, you know mm-hmm.

In business jargon. Mm-hmm. But just to say, okay. Who's already on board, there's no point in, you know, hashing out the message five [00:29:00] times. They were on board before I even said anything. Right. Uh, and those are the, you know, promoters or the early adopters or whatever we wanna call them, and then who is, you know, uh, a detractor or, you know, a straggling behind or whatever that may be.

And that's fine. But just understanding those different positions and then treating them accordingly, I think is important and is key to success. Because just, you know, I sent out one email. I am sure everyone processed the same way and now we're all ready to go together. Right. Is a little bit idealistic.

Angela Gennari: That's so true. So, so, so true. Because I mean, even on our, our team, you know, we have those who, you know, if I were to call 'em every day, okay, did you get the email? Are we good? Are we, do you need anything? Are you know, are we ready for this change? Are we ready to implement? And they're like, would you stop calling me?

Like, I'm fine. And then you have others who are like, can you tell me about that again? 'cause I'm really, I'm not following what you're doing, and why are we doing this? And can you, can you gimme like the background on it? And I'm like. But, and so you're absolutely right. Yeah. Um, so, oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Daphne Leger: No, uh, there's another [00:30:00] point that you mentioned, Angela, that I just wanted to come back to, which is you, you mentioned a little bit, um, I, I heard kind of the idea of being somewhat flexible.

Mm-hmm. And it's important, and it's one of the principles that I've developed as well, which is iterating, you know, as we go. Mm-hmm. Um, I think it's important to not. Pretend or assume or think that you're gonna get it right on the first go. Yeah. 'cause we never do. Mm-hmm. And change is obviously dynamic by its very nature.

And so kind of being clear, transparent and admitting that, you know, from the get go is super important. And, and I struggled with that at the beginning to think, well how does a leader who needs to, you know, lead people clearly? And not show, like, I have no clue what I'm doing, or I, you know, I'm, I'm full of doubts, also leave space for that.

Mm-hmm. And, um, through the, the book process, I interviewed a lot of, you know, experts and leaders and they, the, the, the answer has been very clear and it's been be very. Clear and even strict on the vision. And be flexible on the details. Yes. Yeah. And so we're going [00:31:00] here to point, you know, Z, that's not really negotiable.

That is the vision of where we're going. Right. I hope you'll join me. Mm-hmm. How we get there, we're gonna figure it out as we go. I have this initial plan and I'm gonna be checking in with you together. It'll probably evolve because that's the very nature of, of change. Right. And I think that's the most kind of humane.

Human and transparent way to, to, to do this and therefore the most effective way.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, they also, another way to put it is be clear on the goal and flexible on the process, right? Yeah, exactly. It's very similar, but yeah, I think that that's so true and there's so much validity to that because, you know, if you, if you say we're gonna get to.

X revenue this year, but then, you know, your strategy for getting there is just blowing up in your face constantly. Then, you know, don't change the goal, just change the strategy and you'll, you'll get there. You just gotta tweak something and usually it's a pretty simple thing.

Daphne Leger: Absolutely. And you were mentioning earlier that this applies so much at a level, you know, personal and professional.

Mm-hmm. And I find that this topic, you know, that's the case [00:32:00] in every single sub subpoint of it as well. This is an ex excellent example. I've gotten away from setting super specific, um, kind of. Uh, inflexible goals mm-hmm. To more general goals that the how can change along the way, you know? Yeah. And, and, and I found that having that grace with myself of, you know, maybe the path to get there is gonna change, uh, leaves me with much more flexibility throughout the year, for example, as we think about our, you know, our annual goals to, to get there, but to get there, you know, in the most effective way, given that things are gonna change along the way.

Angela Gennari: So can you give me an example of that? Like one of the things that would you say is a general goal versus a specific goal?

Daphne Leger: Yeah. So for example, let's say that I'm thinking of, I don't know, um, becoming. I'm wondering if I should, you know, become a podcast host or a keynote speaker or, um, a, a, a book author, um, [00:33:00] that, that I'm get, I'm going very high level here with this example, but, um, instead of being focused on that, I'm, I wanna be, uh, a thought leader.

Right? Mm. Yeah. And, and, and that kind of opens up avenues for me to realize maybe, you know, later in the year, uh, keynote speaking is gonna become much more pertinent for some reason that I just can't see right now. And, uh, you know, writing a book or publishing a book will be less. And so I'll be able to pivot and adjust because my goal was who do I wanna be?

I wanna be a thought leader. Mm-hmm. Not what exact specific thing do I wanna, you know, achieve by, um, July. Mm-hmm. Uh, and so. So at a personal level, I found that that's useful. Now businesses need goals and things that are, you know, measurable and clear to work on. So I think, you know, you have to kind of calibrate accordingly, but in general mm-hmm.

My point is leave some flexibility for what exactly that ends up looking like.

Angela Gennari: Yeah.

Daphne Leger: That's beautiful. So

Angela Gennari: talk to me a little bit more about what does future proofing mean [00:34:00] and how do we get there?

Daphne Leger: Yeah. So future proof for me is tied to this concept of changeability. Mm-hmm. Uh, for me, changeability is the one skill that's gonna get us future proof and changeability is this capacity to drive and embrace.

Both planned and unplanned change as a path to a better future.

Both: Mm-hmm. And,

Daphne Leger: um, and I talk about both of those changes because they're both difficult. We, we sometimes say, oh, you know, plan change is super easy. That's the ones that I actually wanna do well, uh, 92% of New Year's resolutions don't get done.

Right. True. So That's true. We choose them and then we. Don't quite make them happen. Um, or 70% of change initiatives in organizations fail. Mm-hmm. So those are, those are changes that people said, let's do this and then, and then couldn't. Uh, and then unplanned change, I think everyone knows, uh, intuitively that it's difficult 'cause you didn't see it coming.

But either way. Having the capacity to say this change is gonna unlock something better, I [00:35:00] think is, is really important. And the reason I talk about that making you future proof is I think we're in an era that is being called, you know, exponential change. Um, yeah. So if you're feeling like change is coming kind of harder, faster, bigger, more frequent than ever before, it's because it is, right?

Yeah. And you might think, oh, I'm sure they said that every time before. I mean, the data kind of, when you, when you plot it on a graph, it's clear it's, it's bigger than it ever was before. Uh, we actually, most of human history were pretty stable things didn't change that quickly. And now they are. And so I think that with this pace of change, uh, it's really impossible to say, oh, this is the one hard skill

Both: that's gonna

Daphne Leger: make you future proof.

Mm-hmm. Because it's very, very probable that in six months it will no longer be relevant because I can't really predict the future. Yeah. And so within this era of such volatile, uh, and unpredictable change. That more soft skill of being able to adapt to [00:36:00] whatever comes, becomes much more valuable, right?

Mm-hmm. Uh, and I think in general, we're getting away from valuing hard-coded skills because they become obsolete so quickly and, and we're starting to value that adaptability to learn whatever needs to be learned for, you know, whatever the future is gonna bring. So. That's what I mean by by being future proof.

Uh, it's basically ready to adapt to whatever comes your way and using change as your biggest ally to get to a better future.

Angela Gennari: Well, and I think we never saw a bigger change than during the pandemic. You know, like during the pandemic we went from, and that was one of those unexpected changes, you know, unexpected things that happen.

You're like, who planned for that? Right? Like, nobody planned for that. Nobody had a pandemic protocol, right? Because they're like, can you send me your pandemic protocols? Like, my what? And so like, but then, you know, we all adapted to. Zoom calls and, you know, remote, remote learning and remote working and, and that, that became like, okay, we figured this [00:37:00] out, and then that opened up the world, right?

So even though all of my meetings might have been mostly with people in Atlanta where I live, I. Now all of a sudden I can meet with people all around the world, you know, all my podcasts could be based, you know, here in Atlanta and now they can be Mexico City. I'm having a conversation. So, you know, it just, it opened up everything.

But now, you know, we're kind of in that weird place of like, do we continue with this forward motion of remote work because we kind of miss being in front of people too.

Daphne Leger: Absolutely. Yeah. Um, it's. I, I think it's the ability to reinvent yourself like we all did to some extent. Some more, some less during the pandemic.

Yeah. Uh, and to kind of innovate on yourself, right? Yeah, yeah. In order to, to stay relevant. Relevant, both. As a person, you know, as a professional, and then as organizations that we're a part of mm-hmm. Or that we lead. And, and so change becomes key to that. And, um, you know, you don't have to become a change addict like me.

That's a [00:38:00] bit extreme. Uh, you know, you're welcome to come to my end of the spectrum if you want to, but Uhhuh, I think you just need to move to a place, uh, along the spectrum where change is no longer the enemy. And this boogeyman that you're fearing, like when is it gonna hit me and how, how can I hide from it?

And more like just, this is a part of the reality of this constant growth and evolution that we're in. And it is the mechanism by which that happens.

Both: Mm-hmm.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Well and you know, the force change can actually bring about the changes then you, that you then plan, right? So like, okay, that was. That was a change I didn't like, but you know, it happened, but now I'm kind of planning my future towards this change.

And so I like that we can take control of it and that we then can determine the process at which, you know, we want to move.

Daphne Leger: Yeah, absolutely. And I, what I will say about that, um, because we're always. Gonna like plan change more than unplanned change. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mean, and it's for that very important word that you just mentioned, which is control, which we all love.

Right. And I'm, and I'm the first that will say, I love to control everything around me. [00:39:00] Right? Um, so yes. But, but what I will say is, even though we don't plan for it, once it hits us this unplanned change, we can still control. A lot we can control how we react to it, which is everything.

Both: Mm-hmm.

Daphne Leger: Um, and there's this really fascinating, uh, thought experiment that, uh, came out of Google and it's called the Eraser Test.

I don't know if you've heard of it. Mm-hmm. No. Okay. So, um, this leader at, at Google basically started, uh, asking thousands of people, um, about the hardest thing that had ever happened in their lives. Unplanned changes. Right. Interesting. And he asked them. Okay. Imagine if we've developed this technology at Google where we can just erase that completely from your life.

Both: Mm-hmm.

Daphne Leger: Uh, including all the implications that it had, just everything gone. Would you want us to apply the eraser to this event occurrence, whatever it was? 99% of people say no. Wow. Really? Yeah. [00:40:00] Interesting. And I've applied the eraser test now with people who have gone through harrowing, uh, really tough things.

And it's the same result, really. Uh, and the reason is because it becomes. A huge impetus for incredible transformation in your life that even though it was difficult and negative, even we could say you can't erase it anymore afterwards because it's so important to who you grew into, who you evolved into.

And I mean this at a personal level, but it could also be at an organizational level, et cetera. And so I think it's important to keep that in mind. Mm-hmm. Keep that perspective when you're in the thick of it. It's gonna be very hard to, you know, mm-hmm. Already have that distance and say, oh, at some point I would, I'm gonna ask that this never be erased for my life.

But try to remember that people say that about the hardest things that have ever happened to them. Uh, and I mean, really difficult things. Mm-hmm. So, so I think it shows that it's, it's, it's really about that perspective and how, um, there can be positive, positive ramifications if you [00:41:00] decide to look at it that way, that you won't be able to see right in the moment.

Angela Gennari: That's a hundred percent true. And I always look at it, you know, I always say challenge is what grows character, right? Like you can't, if your life is super, super, super easy, you're not developing character, you're not developing that, that toughness that you need need to be able to do problem solving. You know, one of the things that.

Parents are getting criticized for now is because they're solving all their kids' problems. And then the kids get into the workforce and they don't know how to solve problems anymore, and now all of a sudden, like they, they're really in a bad spot because they can't figure out how to get from A to B.

You know? It's like, well, I've never been challenged like that. And, you know, there's, there's no accountability, there's no responsibility. And so there's, there's a generation of. People out there that, you know, people are, um, criticizing because they don't have problem solving ability because they had, don't have that character development that you learn through change and through challenge.

Daphne Leger: I. Yeah, absolutely. And that brings me back to my [00:42:00] previous world of innovation. We, we always talk about innovation, um, transforming problems into opportunities,

Both: right? And it, and

Daphne Leger: it gets to such a, a level that as an innovator, when you see a problem, you know, you think, oh, yummy. What, what can we do with this?

Like, there's an opportunity here, right? Yep. And that's a, that's a way to look at the world that really rewires everything and changes your reality.

Angela Gennari: It really does. Have you ever read the book? The Obstacle is the Way. Ooh, I haven't, I've heard the title, but I haven't read it. It's so good. So good. So it's just exactly what you were just saying.

Um, so it's about how to look at something and say, wow, that's really challenging. I'm gonna dive right into that and figure out how to solve it, because if I'm having that problem, other people are having that problem, right? So I'm gonna focus on that problem and find the solution to that. And so I, I just think there's a lot of, um, brilliance in looking at.

Problems and, and imagining how to get through it, because that's where the true value is. Um, when you're, when [00:43:00] you're, you know, like you were saying at before, adding value to something.

Daphne Leger: Absolutely. Yeah. I love that.

Angela Gennari: Very cool. So who inspires you?

Daphne Leger: Uh, I think my, my answer's not gonna surprise you. It is gonna be anybody who shows what I call changeability Yeah.

Or what others might call adaptability. Yeah. Um, and so I, I'm always kind of on the lookout for mm-hmm. For examples of that. Um, I can tell you about one recent one. Uh, here in Mexico there's this tribe of, um. Indigenous, uh, communities called the Ra Mui. Mm-hmm. They're in the north, they're in the Mexican equivalent of the Grand Canyon.

We have this amazing canyon in the north called the Copper Canyon. Okay. Uh, it's even deeper and longer than the Grand Canyon. It's, it's amazing. So they live in that area and, uh. I'm really inspired in particular by the women of that community. Uh, they're actually world famous because they are, uh, [00:44:00] incredible runners ing because they live, yeah, they live in this really rugged, very intense terrain as you can imagine in this, in this canyon.

And, um, they live in these communities that are a little bit. Kind of separated one from the other. And so they have developed this ability to, and this necessity I guess, but to, to run from one place to the other in order to get there, you know, more effectively. Um, and so what's fascinating is as the modern world has connected with them to a very little extent, but to some extent, they've become participants in these ultra, uh, trail running competitions.

Interesting. And they participate. And they participate in their traditional garb. So they're wearing like these beautiful dresses and these sandals like very basic materials, and they outrun professional runners from all over the world consistently. That's outstanding. I love that. It's fascinating. Yeah.

And they've, they've adapted as a community and as individuals to these incredibly harsh conditions. Mm-hmm. But it's kind of [00:45:00] created this. Superpower in them. Yeah. Uh, that we, you know, can admire in these feats that we, that we participate in as well. But it, it's a really good example of like, we can adapt to things that seem insurmountable and it could unlock this potential that's just, you know, not seen initially.

Yeah.

Angela Gennari: Unbelievable. I absolutely love that story so much. Um, and I love any kind of story about resilience. I think resilience is one of the most beautiful character traits anyone can have. And when you see somebody go through something really, really tough and they come out on the other side of that, I mean, I just am so inspired by the strength and the resolve that they have to get there.

Absolutely. So speaking of challenges, can you tell me about some challenges and obstacles that you've had to overcome in, uh, in writing your book and, and starting this journey through innovation?

Daphne Leger: I. Yeah. Uh, ooh. Where to begin? There's a lot of them. So first of all, in innovation, uh, unsurprisingly as it's part of what led me to this change focus, I faced a lot of resistance all the time.

Every single time I would have a [00:46:00] proLegerct, um, you know, the first reaction was, no, we don't wanna do this. No, that's not possible. No, I don't like it. Mm-hmm. Um, and I remember in my last corporate job, I was in a really big, um, multinational, actually company here. And, um. I was about six months into my innovation role in this company, and the strategy head of the entire company had a meeting with me, um, and he told me.

Daphne, you're a virus. And this was before the pandemic, but it was still a bit offensive to be called. Yeah. A virus. And so he explained further and it was brilliant because what he explained to me was, you're coming into this organization that is an organism that has been established through decades and decades.

Mm-hmm. To protect itself from any. Kind of disturbance, basically. So it's all process and protocols and you know, everything has to run just so, and it's what's led us to all of the success. [00:47:00] Right? Yeah. And that is what a, what a big company or successful organization is. And you're coming in and you're saying, oh, could we just.

The mess with that and do it differently or just try something else. And of course, the reaction of this organism is to push back and to protect itself because every single person in this organism has been taught that the recipe to success is to do things Exactly. Just so, and it was super helpful when he explained to me why I was getting that initial re, you know, reaction from.

The entire organization and every area and and person. And so I realized, okay, yeah, that is, that's true. I, I'm a virus. Hi, uh, I'd like to be a good virus, right? Uhhuh, I'd like to be a virus that manages to convince the organism that this is gonna be better for it, but I need to kind of have the empathy to know that's what the initial reaction is gonna be.

And it's incredibly rational and makes total sense. So that's, that was a challenge I had to face over and over again, which led me to a lot of the learning I think that, that I can now share.

Both: Mm-hmm.

Daphne Leger: Um, and the second one I'll mention is as I, you know, [00:48:00] delved into writing a book, um, writing was not my medium.

I'm, if you can't tell, I'm a talker, which is why I'm having such a fascinating time in this conversation. Mm-hmm. Um, but so, you know, I, I can get up on a stage in front of 500 people and like I feel comfortable. I'm in my flow. It's. It's, it's where I'm, you know, meant to be. Yeah. Sitting down and writing is a very different challenge for me.

Right. And so I had a really tough time with it. Um, and everything that you can imagine, all the imposter syndrome and who am I to be writing a book, and all of that kind of came pouring in. And just the mechanism of how to do this work that I was so unused to was really tough. Mm. Uh, and I remember I got the recommendation, which is a very good one to write every single day for 30 minutes.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, I've heard that. And I

Daphne Leger: tried. I tried for a long time. I tried and I failed miserably and I felt terrible about it. And, and I just felt like, you know, because I'm leading a business, so my day is a little bit crazy. Mm-hmm. And I'm teaching courses [00:49:00] and giving conferences and facilitating workshop. And so just putting in a 30 minute slot to write was.

Totally unrealistic. Mm-hmm. I just, I wasn't able to, you know, get into that mode for just 30 minutes within my, my day. And so it didn't work and it took me a while to find my own system and method, which was the opposite of that. It was basically every weekend or so block, you know, three or four hours and just like dive in and get into that very different mode of working and creative kind of setting.

And I often would go somewhere else in order to do that. Mm-hmm. And that's what started working for me. Interesting. And so it just, it just showed me what, what you were mentioning before of, you know, when you're, when someone tells you like, go run and do it this way, you, you need to adapt it to what works to you.

Mm-hmm. Um, and so I had to, yeah, I had to learn a whole new way of working in order to do this, this type of work that I wasn't used to.

Angela Gennari: Interesting. Yeah. I like that because you know, you, you're right. And you know, when you're, when you're told to do something, it may not fit your particular. You know, Mo, and I'm the same way.

People are like, [00:50:00] well just get up earlier. Just do this. Just stay up late. And I'm like, ah, so hard. Like, I'm not a morning person, I'm an evening person and I end up working, like last night I worked until one o'clock in the morning on doing really nothing of just like, just getting tasks done. But then I was exhausted this morning and I didn't wanna get up and, but yeah.

Um, people tell you what works for them and then they expect it. Well, you can just plug this into your life, but like you, you know, I would need to find my own way to do it, and then it would be embraced. But, you know, sometimes you just gotta figure out your own way.

Daphne Leger: Just, you know, kind of trial and error experiment.

Um, and that grace that we were talking about. Yes. Kind of, yeah. Giving yourself some grace. And also I'm a huge fan of the idea of, you know, just 1% better than yesterday leads to huge change over the long run. And so, yeah. Um, yeah. Um, dividing things into really bite size. Yeah. Uh, parts of the, of the challenge.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Well, I'm glad you wrote the book and I'm glad I got it through, got through it and, you know, I understand the imposter syndrome and [00:51:00] you know, I've been trying to write a book now for literally years, and I keep giving myself all the excuses of like, um, maybe, maybe in six months things will slow down.

Maybe I'll do this, maybe I'll do that. And I've tried to listen to the right 30 minutes everyday thing and I'm like, I can't get in the zone in 30 minutes. 30 minutes, it takes me to just get focused and then it's time that's done, and now I gotta move on to other things. So yeah. I'm with you. Yeah. So I always ask on the podcast if there's ever a time that you gave your power away, because as women, I think that we give our power away fairly often when it comes to, you know, just letting someone else take credit for our work or, you know, giving, um, allowing someone to treat us poorly, um, in, in an attempt to be likable.

You know, we have, we have a lot of those traits. Can you think of a time that you've given your power away and another time that you've stepped into your power?

Daphne Leger: Oh, it's a powerful question.

Angela Gennari: Yeah.

Daphne Leger: Um, you know, the thing that comes to mind is not an event, it's more like a [00:52:00] phase of life. Yeah. Um, I was extremely shy when I was younger.

Oh, really? I know that's the reaction I always get, like, Hmm, you are, you sure? That doesn't sound like you, but I was, um, from basically zero to 18, I was, I mean, debilitatingly shy, like I really, you know, I would get really anxious in like social situations. I would always kind of try to avoid them and, um, it was.

Uh, I, I gave all my power away basically. I was like, please don't give me any power. I wouldn't know what to do with it. I, I don't want anyone to see me with power. Um, yeah, it was really tough and as you can imagine moving around so much. I was the new girl all the time. And so if you add on top of that, being shy, it was a tough, tough experience.

Um. And it was, I can't really tell you why and how, but I, I, you know, I would actually, part of the explanation is that my father was really good at giving me little challenges. It, I think it goes back to the exposure therapy that we're talking about. Okay, [00:53:00] ask the waiter for this, or, you know, go talk to this person or whatever.

And it was excruciating, but I would. Sometimes try to do it. Yeah. Um, but anyway, it took me until I was about, I think around 18 when I went to university to start to come out of my shell and it was a process. Right. Um, and it's fascinating because at this point I'm so far away from, from that little girl who was.

So shy. Yeah. Um, and I, you know, I'm, I'm in front of audiences all the time. I love being on stage. I love being the center of attention and just like sharing with, you know, a huge group of people if I can. Anything that, that I find, you know, valuable or useful for them. But it's that little girl could've never even imagined that, you know, she would've trembled just that the idea, yeah.

What I'm doing now. Um, and so yeah, it is just a huge transformation that. That took a very long time. Um, and now for me, being in this position and being a woman who's in this position is super important. And I, [00:54:00] um, you know, I work a lot to, um, kind of share that space and share that power with other women as well.

Um, and I, I facilitate, um, a group here in Mexico, city of, um. We we're basically called powerful women. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and we get together and try to support each other and, and drive and push and, and kind of be there for each other in a way that I think we, um, we would've needed before and, and are glad to have now, um, just to help Yeah.

Help women's step into their space and, and take that power, uh, so that it doesn't take 18 years. Yeah. Um, but, but yeah, I'm, I'm very proud of myself, uh, for, for the. Transformation because it, it's, uh, it's a big one.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, that's for sure a big one. Well, congratulations on that because I mean, that's a huge, huge transformation.

But I love your story and there's so much of that that I love. I love that you have a tribe of women now that you all support each other because I think we all need that. Um, especially when you're trying [00:55:00] to promote that like, you know, the. Be powerful and own it and step into that power, because sometimes it's really hard when it's just you and you're trying to convince yourself to do it, and you're trying to convince yourself to walk into that room and do that pitch and trying to convince yourself that, you know, you want, you wanna say something about your book, but you're like, I don't wanna, you know, like, but having that tribe of women, I have found that to be one of the greatest, um, motivators in my life.

Daphne Leger: A hundred percent. It's, uh, it's beautiful that we're, we're in an era where that's happening more and more. Yes, yes. Uh, and I see, you know, the younger generations, it kind of comes built in a little bit more. But yeah, as we know, we never have to take any of that for granted. Right. And we have to keep pushing and, and supporting.

Angela Gennari: A hundred percent. So, so, um, Daphne, I've just loved this conversation. This has been so insightful and I've loved learning about change and innovation and future proofing and all of these amazing things. But, um, I just have one more question for you. What do you wish more people knew?

Daphne Leger: Uh, that's a big one.

Yeah. Especially for one, for someone whose job it is to turn on [00:56:00] light bulbs. So many things. Yeah. But, um, maybe something that we really slightly touched on, but I would, I would wanna say more, more clearly. Um, I think it's a lesson that I've learned over and over again in my life and I'm probably gonna have to learn it five more times 'cause uh, it's easy to forget.

Um, but it's that. The way you decide to see anything changes everything. Mm-hmm. Um, and someone who said it much better than me is Shakespeare's Hamlet, Uhhuh, uh, and he said, there's nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think that that can change your day, it can change your, the world inside your mind and then therefore the world around you.

You know, just, just this idea that. There's the, the situation and there's how you decide to see it and how you decide to, um. To face it and that, that makes the difference. I mean, it's, it's an incredibly powerful difference. And I say it's a lesson I've had to learn over and over again because I learn it, and then it kind of slips [00:57:00] away.

Mm-hmm. And then I, I learn it again, but every time that I've got it clear, I feel myself given, given kind of quantum leaps in my, in my evolution, my progress, my power, my growth. And so I think, uh, if it's, you know, it's something we can all work on and it, it can unlock incredible potential in ourselves.

Angela Gennari: Gosh, what a beautiful way to end this, because I just love that concept. And, and you're right. I mean, the way you think of something can really change. Uh, just it is life changing, right? So if you think something's bad, it is. If you think something's good, it is. You know, whatever you decide is it's right because it's right for you.

That's right. So,

Daphne Leger: yeah.

Angela Gennari: Beautiful. So how can find people find you?

Daphne Leger: So, um, they can find me on Instagram. Mm-hmm. Uh, I'm at, at, which was that tough company name in Spanish, uh, by Daphne or on LinkedIn, Daphne Leger. But I also, um, prepared a little something for, for your audience. Beautiful. Um, I wanted to invite them to go to.

At [00:58:00] re vive.com/future. So that's A-T-R-E-V-I-D a.com/future. And I prepared, uh, a guide to breaking routines in your life and work, which I think is the first step that you can take to start to change your real relationship to change. So I wanted to invite you to, to check that out, if that's of interest.

And then you'll also get, uh, updates on the Future Proof book, which is coming soon.

Angela Gennari: Yay. Well, thank you so much. So amazing. So I've, I've loved our conversation. I'm wishing you so much success and, uh, so much joy in your life. So thank you for everything that you are doing to, uh, ignite change in others. So

Daphne Leger: thank you, Angela.

It was such a blast chatting, and I appreciate the, the form and space you're, you've created, uh, to, to have conversations that are deep and meaningful.

Angela Gennari: Thank you. I appreciate that, and we will see everybody on the next episode of the Pretty Powerful podcast. Have a great day, everybody.

Intro: Bye-bye. Thank you for joining our guests on the pretty powerful [00:59:00] podcast, and we hope you've gained new insight and learn from exceptional women.

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