Episode 85: Bethany Corbin

Bethany Corbin

Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the pretty powerful podcast where powerful women are interviewed every week to share real inspiring stories and incredible insight to help women or anyone break the barriers, be a part of innovation, shatter the glass ceiling and dominate to the top of their sport industry or life's mission.

Join us as we celebrate exceptional women and step into our power. And now here's your host, Angela Gennari.

Angela Gennari: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the pretty powerful podcast. My name is Angela Gennari, and today I'm here with Bethany Corbin. Hi, Bethany. Hi, Angela. Thank you so much for having me. My pleasure.

So Bethany is an award winning attorney and top voice at the intersection of women's health and technology. She is the managing partner of women's health innovation consulting and the co founder and CEO of Femme Innovation. Through her [00:01:00] companies, Bethany helps unite the women's health ecosystem to drive meaningful and sustainable change in the women's health and femtech industries.

So cool. So I'm going to start by asking what led you to focus on your

Bethany Corbin: career in women's health and femtech? Yeah, it's actually an interesting journey. So I started my legal career in financial services and litigation. So something totally different. Yeah, care at all. But I'd always had a passion for healthcare because my mom actually has an incurable disease, which she got diagnosed with when I was a well, She got the symptoms when I was about eight years old, and it took another seven to eight years for her to get diagnosed.

So we had a long and kind of complicated history with the medical gaslighting as a child and seeing the different inner workings of the healthcare system in the U. S. And so I've always had that passion for healthcare. I went and, you know, like, like any other person, right, decided to make money, um, focused career, um, in big law, and then very unexpectedly had my own women's health issue, [00:02:00] um, at the height of the pandemic, Unexpectedly, I was, um, at a doctor's office and just for my annual physical, I had no real symptoms, but I did have symptoms, but I had written them off like many women do.

And so, um, we're at the end of the exam and she asked me if I'm pregnant. And I just laugh. I'm like, no, there's no chance I'm pregnant. And then she gets out the tape measure and it starts to dawn on me that there's something going on in my

Both: stomach.

Bethany Corbin: pelvic region, if you have a tape measure. Um, and it turned out that I had massive fibroids, um, to the point where I was the equivalent of six months pregnant and they were starting to crush my internal organs.

So I now was then thrust into that role of being a patient, navigating the healthcare system on my own, um, not longer being an advocate, but having to actually do all the research, check out all the treatment options. And in that, I learned that 80 percent of women are going to have fibroids during their lifetime.

Yeah. And it caused me to think, well, if 80 percent of [00:03:00] men had tumors on their reproductive organs, we would have a pill for this. This would be easily treated and it wouldn't be a problem. I had to have a seven hour plus surgery at the Mayo Clinic, um, which is longer than a heart transplant surgery. So I could not believe it.

And I said, we've got to do better for women. And so I actually completely pivoted my career into being a voice of change for women's health.

Angela Gennari: Wow. That is an unbelievable story. And thank God you just happened to be there getting your checkup, you know, because we are, we're bad at, at acknowledging symptoms.

We're it'll go away. That little squeak, that crack, that whatever, it'll be fine.

Bethany Corbin: Right? And we're so often taught, you know, that it's not anything to worry about, right? I thought I was just getting fat. And you know, I was eating poorly. And you know, the only real symptom I had is, you know, I would get full quickly.

Um, and And, you know, so I just kind of have some nausea after eating. And then when I would lay down to do ab exercises, I'd lay on the floor. It felt [00:04:00] like something was there, but of course I had to minimize it. So I'm like, Oh, it's probably a hernia or something, you know, not that important, not, Hey, this is a giant tumor in my stomach.

Oh my gosh. Wow.

Angela Gennari: Wow. That's incredible. So, so, okay. So then you go through this intense surgery. I mean, seven hours that that's intense, pretty intense. So then you, you decide to pivot your whole career. So what does that look like? Tell me, tell me what, what challenges you had to kind of face at that point, because I mean, you're already, you know, You're, you're moving full on into one career and now you're pivoting.

Bethany Corbin: Yeah, exactly. It's tough. You know, whenever I first decided to be a health care attorney, um, it was really interesting cause I thought, great, I'm just going to switch fields, right? The law is the law, right? The skills that I have should be easily transferable. I can read a case in financial services. I can easily read one in healthcare.

And what I found was that actually nobody would hire me as a health care attorney. Um, even though I had, I had the perfect pedigree that you would look for, right? I had, [00:05:00] Great law school. I was top of my class. I was on law review journal, right? I had big law experience. I had a really coveted DC circuit clerkship.

And I thought getting a job is going to be easy. And I don't want to be in financial services anymore. I'm in litigation. I want to do healthcare. So that should be really easy transition. Um, I applied and I applied and I applied. And every time what I heard was you need healthcare specific experience in the legal field in order to be a healthcare attorney.

And I couldn't understand why. And it turns out, you know, our health care system is very complex, especially from a fraud and abuse side. And there's a lot of health care specific information and topics that they want you to know. So what I actually ended up having to do is I got a job in a large law firm in DC, and I worked in their telecommunications and technology and media practice group.

And they had a health care group as well. And I. I went and I reached out to the health care partners, and I said, Hey, I'm really interested in working in what you're doing. I don't have any health care experience. I've got, you know, four or five [00:06:00] years of legal experience. So if there's any overflow work that your team needs, please come and talk to me.

I'd love to help. Um, and it was great because I also at the same time decided to get my LLM, which for those who aren't familiar, it's kind of the next step above a JD degree. Um, I got my LLM while I was working in health care law as well. So yeah. That kind of combination was great because the healthcare partners did reach out to me.

And it's, it's funny because I ended up doing maybe 10 percent of the work for my hired practice group. And then the other 90 percent I was doing an intellectual property and healthcare and working with those other diverse groups, um, which was great. So that's kind of, How I transitioned and dealt with the barrier of the fact that I really didn't have a lot of health care specific expertise.

So I ended up having to do another degree program while I worked starting out in, you know, in a practice area that maybe I wasn't as passionate about and doing some extra work on the side until I was fully integrated into that health care group. Wow, that [00:07:00] is incredible tenacity.

Angela Gennari: I mean, to So take on all of that, you know, for a specific cause you were so focused on your mission, you know, which was ultimately to get into this fem tech space, right.

To, to be a healthcare advocate. Wow. So, okay. So then, um, so. As you get into this new segment of health care, um, tell me what that looks like. What is women's, women's health in law? Like, how do, how do the two coincide and where, where does that collision happen?

Bethany Corbin: Yeah, it's so interesting because until 2016, the term femtech did not even exist.

Really? Yeah. So when I went to law school, this field did not even have a name. Um, so, so it was really interesting, you know, kind of the more I read up and got into, um, tech, um, for me, I was at big law at that time. And so we were dealing a lot with, you know, kind of the, the more traditional aspects of healthcare, like managed care, insurance, [00:08:00] um, pharmacy benefit management, right.

There's kind of not so fun, um, aspects. Working with the large health care institutions, and that's not at all what femtech is. So femtech itself is more working with startups and helping them bring their products to life. And so after I kind of got that health care knowledge and really realized that femtech Thumbtack was where I wanted to focus.

I actually had to switch law firms and go to a much smaller law firm that could cater to those startup clients. And so I went to a firm that focused exclusively on digital health innovation. And by that point in time, gosh, I had been an attorney seven or eight years and had healthcare background, right?

Had all this great background. I went there. And it was very interesting. I remember crying the first week on the job because I said, Oh my God, I know how to do nothing. All the work that they did for startups was a complete one 80 to the work that you're doing for the larger healthcare organizations.

[00:09:00] And so I had to learn all about. Telehealth, digital health, um, crazy, um, corporate structures for telehealth companies, all things that I didn't know how to do, you know, how to form companies, what it looks like on the IP side. Um, and so for somebody who, who never had to deal with that before, that was an entirely new learning curve for me.

For me, um, and I'm glad I stuck it out because I learned a lot and that allowed me to start building a practice with Femtech companies where I was able to work with them, help them bring their products to life faster, get those products to the market and kind of navigate all the different regulatory hurdles that they experienced, especially data privacy and kind of that post row world.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Wow. That's so interesting. So, you know, I look at when you were talking about how you had come from big law and gone into, you know, the, the more, you know, agile startup community. It's so interesting because I've spent most of my career on the startup side. [00:10:00] And every time we hire somebody from a big corporation, and I'm like, Oh, they're going to bring so much experience and they're going to bring so much, you know, knowledge.

And they're going to really have that, that ability to make that our company seem big. And it's the opposite. They come in and they're helpless. They're like, there's not enough structure. There's not enough. Like somebody, who do I delegate to? You delegate to nobody. Nobody. Oh my gosh,

Bethany Corbin: it's so funny you mentioned that because, you know, I was, again, I had 70 years of law experience.

I was next in line for partner at my large law firm. And when I took a step, you know, I, when I took this the smaller job, I actually had to take a temporary decrease in title because they were telling me that it was going to be so different from anything I had ever worked on that they didn't want to set me up for failure by bringing me on as, you know, senior counsel or something like that without giving me a ramp up period.

And so that was, you know, that was intimidating. Like, man, am I actually taking a demotion to go and do this job and do something that I think I might [00:11:00] be passionate about? And technically I did for, you know, for For five months, take that demotion. And I'm glad I did because I learned so much, um, kind of on that ramp up period.

But yeah, no, it was interesting that you say that because a hundred percent, um, people who are not used to working in the startup world, they have a really hard time transitioning into the fast paced environment and kind of the all hands on deck environment.

Angela Gennari: Oh, yeah, yeah, it's, um, it's blown up in our face more than once.

And even when you drive, like, you know, I have a lot of respect for them saying, Hey, we're gonna not put you in and set you up for failure. I have respect for that. Because, you know, you hire somebody, you're like, I'm going to do this reach, you know, and I'm going to bring somebody in from big law, and they're going to be, you know, our director of whatever, whatever, and then it ends up being a disaster.

And that has happened to us. Um, for the same reasons, you know, we brought somebody in from a big company, we thought they'll be able to, you know, transfer their knowledge and expertise and we do, [00:12:00] and it has crashed and burned badly. And that ramp up period is really important because. How business is done is how it's, it's, it's different.

Bethany Corbin: I mean, it's just, it's everything. Well, yeah. Right. And you go from a law firm, you know, where the partner is your quote unquote client, right. And they tell you what to do. And you always have somebody looking at your work before it goes out the door to then a startup where you have to be entirely self sufficient because everybody else is doing 10 million things and they don't have time to double and triple check you.

Angela Gennari: Yes. Yes. Yes. So, okay. This is so fascinating. So then we go into the startup world. So talk to me a little bit more about Femtech. Like what companies are out there? Like how, how are companies out there, um, getting women's needs met when it comes to health

Bethany Corbin: and technology? Yeah, it's a great question. So Femtech itself actually does not have a universal definition.

Um, and you know, at its most basic, it just means female health technology or female technology. In terms of companies, so it has grown [00:13:00] exponentially. As I mentioned, you know, in 2016, it was first coined by Ida Tin, who is the founder of Clue, which a lot of ovulation tracking app. And since then, we have grown to over 1800 companies in the Femtech industry.

Um, we passed The 1 billion funding mark back in 2021, and we're serving an industry that's projected to be worth, gosh, 1. 186 trillion, um, by 2030 for the women's health industry. So it's a huge, you know, huge potential. Um, and I would say, you know, for the first several years of femtech, um, really until the last two years, a lot of the products on the market were really focused on kind of reproductive health care for women.

And so you would see a lot of period tracking apps, fertility apps, ovulation tracking apps. maternal care apps as well. We started to see some that not only allowed women to track kind of their pregnancy symptoms, but also focused on kind of that postpartum period as well, or the fourth trimester. So that kind of had a lot of market saturation at first, [00:14:00] partly because those are the easiest apps to kind of produce and get to market quickly and get a return on that investment.

Now, though, in the last two years, since about 2022, what we've started to So what we're starting to see is growth in the different areas of women's health that are being addressed. So menopause has been one that's really proliferated. We're seeing a lot of invention now and investment in menopause.

We're seeing longevity and more elderly care opportunities come to the market on kind of apps and software and wearables for that. Wow. And cancers are getting more, more and more, um, interest in treatment. So breast cancer, uterine cancer, and ovarian cancer, I would say are the three that we're starting to see a lot of innovation in.

We've also seen innovation too, and kind of, you know, routine products, right? Like pads and tampons, um, and the different kinds of cups that you can use. And what is, you know, the different types of IUDs, um, what does that look like? How is that being reinvented? We're starting to see some. really cool inventions there.

Um, and, you know, for instance, you [00:15:00] know, one company just did a spiral tampon, um, that can actually enhance, you know, um, the blood, the blood collection as well. So, so we're seeing kind of a range of products, whether they're actual tangible consumer goods, or they're more kind of on the apps and wearables and software side.

And I would say, you know, the most recent numbers that I have say about 52. 8 percent of the products in Femtech have some type of a software digital health component to them. Wow.

Angela Gennari: So, so we're looking at, um, a lot of things that I feel like have moved beyond the mom thing, right? Because I don't want to take care of moms, right?

Like, but we're also women and not all women are moms, right?

Bethany Corbin: Exactly. No, it's interesting. No, it's interesting webinar earlier today where, um, We talked about the ways in which some of the early Femtech companies actually made erroneous assumptions about what women wanted in their Femtech products. And they made that exact assumption, right?

That all women want to be mothers. And so some of the initial [00:16:00] versions of these products that you saw on the market actually would only allow you to like track your period if you were trying to get pregnant or things like that. So it had a lot of kind of misaligned assumptions with the user base. Um, a lot of those have worked out now, but it's interesting when you look back at kind of the origins.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Well, because usually, you know, in, in the past, I feel like women's health has only been a priority as far as it has been, you know, in reproductive areas, you know, that, you know, we, we want to make sure we have healthy babies, but, you know, the women themselves, you know, other than reproductive, you know, we have

Bethany Corbin: other needs.

Right. Right. And a hundred percent of women go through menopause, you know, and And so you kind of had that, um, perception, right? That women's health doesn't matter after you've gone through menopause because of the focus on reproductive health. And so it's nice to see that paradigm shift a bit and say, no, like every stage of women's healthcare matters.

And so that's what we're starting to see now with Femtech.

Angela Gennari: Very interesting. So you seeing, are you seeing a lot of, uh, companies that are [00:17:00] talking about hormone imbalances? Because I'm hearing a lot more about that lately.

Bethany Corbin: Yeah, there's a lot of companies out there dealing with hormone imbalances, um, hot flashes and also things like, um, like non hormonal birth control as well.

That's gotten a lot of attention. So we are seeing a lot more kind of on the hormonal side. Um, and I would say that's, you know, kind of. Depending on the application in which it's used can either fall into like reproductive or non reproductive health care. Um, so, so it kind of falls on both sides of that.

But yes, definitely seeing some big innovations there. And we're also seeing large innovations in how employer groups are using Femtech products now or making them available to their employees. That's something you didn't really have, um, a couple years ago. And now a lot of different employer groups are trying to say, okay, well, what menopause solution can we get for our employees?

Or what type of, you know, um, Fertility care support can we provide to individuals who do want to get pregnant? So we're seeing a lot of that in the employer context as well, which is really interesting and kind of a new [00:18:00] development. Absolutely.

Angela Gennari: So, um, as an attorney, I mean, I'm sure you have to have a say in a lot of what's created out there, you know, in terms of like, um, as founders are building their companies and they're creating their business models.

Um, what, what would you say are the top Mistakes Femtech or digital

Bethany Corbin: health founders

Angela Gennari: make.

Bethany Corbin: Yeah, it's, it's interesting, right? That's one of them. I, my most favorite parts of the job, um, is that I actually get to see a lot of these inventions before they get to market and kind of do that, that legal risk analysis.

So it's really cool to see these products as they're being built. Um, but I would say that there's a couple of really key areas that Femtech founders in particular get caught up in. Um, the first, the first is definitely, and this one's not necessarily specific to Femtech, um, but it has to do with. Your name, you know, and what you want that business name to be a lot of founders don't realize that you need to a do a trademark search to make sure that you're not infringing on somebody else's business name [00:19:00] and then yeah, and then be right that the states actually depending on which state you're forming in, they have certain requirements about what you want What you can or cannot say in your name and how you can be misleading, um, and that type of thing.

So you also have to check state requirements. So I found that that's, you know, pretty common for most Femtech founders to not really understand. Um, the other thing that's, that's a bit unique to Femtech has to do with data privacy. So I am, um, a data privacy attorney as well, by background, I have some data privacy certifications and this became hugely important after the Dobbs decision came out in the U S.

because now we have an environment in which there's actually been a large loss of consumer trust in Femtech products because they're not sure how those companies are using and disclosing their data downstream and whether or not that might actually be used against them. So I would say a lot of the kind of the common challenges I deal with with Femtech companies have to do with, well, how can we make our product better?

Privacy centric. How can we make sure that we're not using or disclosing [00:20:00] data downstream in a way that's going to be harmful to patients. What disclosures do we need in case somebody does input abortion data or reproductive health data that could potentially be used against them? How do we handle hackers, right?

Cyber insurance. And so that entire data privacy landscape. It's really, really challenging in femtech right now. Um, and so we've seen a lot of creative solutions come up. You know, we even deal with things as simple as, you know, where should I be storing that data? Right. Cause some states have better reproductive health care laws right now than others.

What am I allowed to say or not say? So that's been a big one for femtech. Um, and then I would say the third one that we deal with a lot of times has to do with how you divide equity in the company. Um, we have, um, femtech's really unique in that. More than 70 percent of founders and thumbtack are female.

And that's, yeah. And that's compared to maybe, you know, 20%, um, in total for our startup company. So that's great. But we also deal with, you know, female founders who don't [00:21:00] necessarily want to have the hard conversations up front about how you're going to divide equity and what that looks like and how you're valuing each other's contributions.

And then that can unfortunately lead to a lot of, you know, Um, unfortunate situations down the line where somebody feels like it's not working out right. Then you have kind of co-founder breakups. So I do a lot of consultation with female founders in particular about having those hard conversations up front and deciding how you're gonna divide that equity, what that looks like in terms of the legal documents and the legal language, and making sure they get it right at the outset instead of kind of pushing those conversations for a later date.

Angela Gennari: So I'm just going to ask this question because I'm just I'm curious. Um, do you find that female founders tend to be a little bit more generous when it comes to ownership and and not as keen on, you know, intellectual

Bethany Corbin: property? Yes, I do. And I find, you know, kind of when it comes to ownership, you know, kind of the, and this happens, you know, outside from tech as well.

Right. But kind of a default of, we're just going to split everything [00:22:00] equally. Um, and, and I see that a lot less frequently with the male founders that I work with, who are very intentional about saying, no, my contribution is this, right. Your contribution is technically worth less than that. Right. Here's kind of the fun mathematical way.

We're going to divide that. And then a lot of the conversations I have with them, tech founders, it's more like, Oh, Oh, no, we just don't want to divide everything equally, right? We haven't really decided. We all contribute in our own way. We all contribute. Exactly. And I have to force them to say, right? I say, no, that's a great starting place.

But no, I want you to go back and I want you to talk, you know, to talk to each other and to think separately about What exactly it is you're bringing to the table and how you envision that involving over time, and what you would put, you know, for a monetary contribution to that. And then we're going to come back and we're going to have the hard conversation because you're not just going to shrug your shoulders and say equal.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, I know. I, um, I was, I was curious because I mean, that's women tend to be by default community minded, you know, we are community minded. We want everybody to be [00:23:00] happy. We want everybody to have. They're fair share. And that is our, you know, nurturing have particles, but I have talked more female founders out of giving away ownership.

I feel like I'm the, you know, the, um, so there, I actually randomly met a woman at a restaurant at one point and she was a nurse and she came up with this great idea on something they were doing during the pandemic. And, and so anyway, they were, they're working with COVID. And so she had a girl with her.

And, uh, this girl was her friend and they're telling me about their business. And, and so this woman, you know, the one I was mainly talking to had done all of the work, you know, all of the investments, single mother, you know, done all this stuff. She's working a full time job to support launching this part time venture that she had started.

And, uh, and, uh, And so she had been operating and she had had a little, you know, a small amount of success at this point. And she was like, well, I'm going to bring her in as my partner. I'm like, wait, [00:24:00] what?

Why does she need to be your partner? And she's like, well, we're friends. And she's going to help me do certain things. And I'm like, well, what is her monetary investment? Well, she's not making a monetary investment. You know, what is her time? And like, tell me exactly what earned her partnership status, because she sounds like an employee or a contractor.

And I was like, hire her as an independent contractor. Why do you need to give her ownership? And she's like, well, you know, I just feel like since she's going to be, you know, contributing and I'm like, no, that means she keeps her job. If she's contributing, that means she gets to keep her job. The job or she gets to be paid for her services.

It doesn't she gets to be ownership, you know, have ownership of the company, but you know, it was an interesting, it's an interesting conversation and so many of those so many of those happen where they feel like, well, it's the right thing to do. Well, we all contribute in our own way. Well, we all bring something different to the table.

Do [00:25:00] you really bring something different to the table? The only people who should be your partners are the ones who bring something unique to the table that you do not have the same. skillset for and cannot hire for at a comparable rate.

Bethany Corbin: That's it. Exactly. Oh my gosh. A hundred percent. And it's interesting, right?

Cause some founders don't realize that investors are going to ask about this, right? They're going to ask what you're each bringing to the table and why you decided to divide equity that way. And you can't just shrug your shoulders and say, well, we're all contributing. Right? You have to know each person's value add, as you said, Angela, and really understand what you bring to that table and why that's something you can't just hire, you know, an outside contractor to do.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, exactly. So yeah, so I was just curious about that. So sorry to sidebar on that, but I was just very curious. So what, so when you're creating what we call a minimum viable business model, right? So, um, so what, what do you think is the lawyer's role? How, how does an attorney help out with that?

Bethany Corbin: Yeah, it's interesting [00:26:00] because if you ask a startup, they will say, Oh, I don't need an attorney for that.

And so, so in their mind, we don't help out. Um, that, that is not recommended for a lot of different reasons. You know, in Femtech, for instance, there are some different business models that I have seen Femtech founders use. That are actually wrong or that can cause legal risk down the line, and they don't realize it because sometimes it can be something that is very specific to health care that would otherwise be permissible in any other industry that you're doing it in.

But our health laws are very stringent in certain circumstances and founders don't necessarily realize that. So they say, well, I saw this model work in financial services, right, or in retail or in real estate. And so therefore I'm going to create it here in health care. And they can get in a lot of trouble about.

Especially whenever we're talking about things like fraud, waste and abuse, or how you're setting up a telehealth company to be able to attract investment, given our corporate practice of medicine laws. So, you know, I think that there's a lot that founders assume they [00:27:00] know, which they unfortunately don't know.

And really in the MVP product, what you want your lawyer to be doing is to advise you on if that's going to be an acceptable and an advisable structure before you go and create it. Um, And what I mean by that, right, is if somebody comes to me and they say, well, I'm going to build a telehealth company for women's health care, and we're going to create a Delaware C Corps and hire all the doctors through that and provide care, right, you know, across the United States, I'm going to say, that's wrong, um, what you really need is specific MSOPC model to get around the different healthcare laws that we have.

And you're going to need clinicians licensed in all 50 states. And then you're going to have to set up five to six practices and foreign register them, you know, and that's kind of really goes into your MVP and how you're going to structure your company and your offerings. Um, and so you unfortunately don't know what you don't know.

So I always recommend. Bring in a lawyer at the outset and having that conversation with them and saying, here's what I want to do. Here's how I'm proposing to do it. What do you see are the [00:28:00] risks to this? And the lawyer, you know, it doesn't have to be something where you're paying thousands and thousands of dollars to get their insight.

It can be an hour long call and you pay their hourly rate. And you give them the overview and they're able to issue spot for you. And they can give you a high level. Yeah, I think that's okay. Or here's the likely risks that you're going to run into. Here's the high risk areas that you should consider mitigating first.

And then you can use that when building out your MVP and make those strategic shifts early versus building out that MVP and trying to go to market. And then you get a bunch of letters from government regulatory agencies that say that you're operating improperly or without proper consents and licenses.

So. You know, I really think our role at the MVP stage is advisory, um, and that we're able to kind of tell you what, A, if your model is going to work, you know, from a legal perspective, but B, what we've also seen work similarly, right? Because you're probably doing something that we have seen others try to do at some point in time, or have done something similar.

something similar. And we can advise you on whether that worked out for [00:29:00] them, right? Or what we saw is kind of their pain points that you might run into. So you can also get kind of that really cool insight that you might not otherwise get if you're just out there trying to do it on your own.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely.

Yeah, I'm a big proponent of bringing in the right people with the right expertise early on. Um, you know, even on things like trademarks, like you were saying earlier, you know, it's, it's one thing. To do a quick online Google search for, you know, Hey, does Titan global enterprises exist anywhere? And I can be like, Nope, you know, and it's also not okay to just think, um, you know, if I can register it in the state, it must be available.

Nope, that's not it.

Bethany Corbin: Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, I'm a lawyer, right? But I even have my own trademark attorney, because I don't do in depth work in that space. And I want somebody who's going to be an expert in that area of the law. So I have my own trademark attorney who does that. Or if I get office actions, and I say, Hey, you know what?

Yeah, I could probably respond to this. But let me ask his strategy. Oh, it's different than what I would have done. Let's go with what he [00:30:00] said. You know, like, I don't want to create problems for myself.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, well, and you know, Avoiding legal consultations early on usually leads to much more expensive legal consultations.

Bethany Corbin: A hundred percent. You know, that was, you know, before I kind of launched out on my own, um, with FEM Innovation and Women's Health Innovation Consulting, um, and I worked at a smaller firm. We still had to turn clients away because they didn't have enough funds, you know, to be able to afford our services.

And so we turned them away and they would come back a year or two later. And I just recall going through, you know, what they were doing and that, you know, what they had done in that interim period. And I would half the time have to say, this is great, but you did X, Y, Z wrong. And it's going to cost you twice as much now versus if you had been able to hire an attorney at the outset.

And it was just heartbreaking because that happens, unfortunately, all the time for startup founders. You know, and the other thing that I would say that's really interesting is, when I launched out on my own, I never thought I would have to convince anybody [00:31:00] about the merits of getting legal counsel. You know, I thought it would be very straightforward, like, yes, we know we need legal, right?

I didn't feel like I'd ever have to sell it. And it's interesting because now with startup companies, right, when you have funding that's so tight and you have to vie for a portion of that funding, you have to explain to them why legal matters and why it's important for them to do the consults up front.

Um, so there's actually a lot more selling of legal services than I ever thought there would be in this field. Yeah.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. That's very interesting. All right. So, um, how would you say Femtech is trending now? Where do you feel like we're looking towards the future of Femtech?

Bethany Corbin: I am so excited for the future of Femtech.

I have to say, um, you know, I think it's an industry where, yeah, we have some problems. We have some concerns, especially post Dobbs, um, and regaining consumer trust, but I think it's also an

Angela Gennari: Just to play off real quick, just for our audience. Can you explain what the Dobbs decision was?

Bethany Corbin: Yeah, of course. Um, so the Dobbs decision [00:32:00] was essentially the Supreme Court decision that came down that overturned Roe v.

Wade. And Roe v. Wade was the decision that gave women the federally protected right to get an abortion. And so when Dobbs came down, it returned that decision to the states. So now we have a framework for abortion that's very state specific. And really how that impacted Femtech was the fact that now we had a lot of those trigger laws go into effect, meaning that they were laws that were on the books before the Roe vs.

Wade decision that then automatically went back into effect, and a lot of them either severely restricted or completely banned abortions in certain states. And so, Because of that, we now have certain states that outlaw or severely limit, um, the time frame in which a woman can get an abortion, and in those states, there's a huge concern that the data that a woman has could be used against her in, like, a law enforcement proceeding, um, or a court action to show that she had an illegal abortion, and when that happened, [00:33:00] um, you probably remember that there were Tons of news articles that came out that said, delete your period tracking apps, right?

Delete your thumb tech apps. That data is going to be used against you. Um, so that's still kind of the environment in which we're navigating for thumb tech and how these companies need to rebuild trust in their data protection and security policies and procedures. Um, so that's kind of, you know, the landscape that we're navigating now, but I think there's so much potential because Femtech is really, for the first time, giving a unified language to women's empowerment and really helping women kind of understand their bodies and their health care decisions and give them kind of the power to actually be able to talk about it in a more public space, um, for conversations that were traditionally held, you know, quietly or considered taboo.

I'm really excited for where we're going. I think we're going to continue to see advancements in the spaces of longevity, senior care, autoimmune diseases, um, and cancer. Those are the ones I'm really interested in seeing kind of [00:34:00] how, how those products develop. Um, historically they've gotten a bit less funding because obviously those are the ones that Are going to take longer to get to market because you have to go through, you know, the FDA approval process and you have to have a lot more money to do the clinical trials.

Um, so those are taking longer to get to market, but we're starting to see more of an interest from investors and investment in the women's health care field there. So I think that's very positive. Um, you know, the other thing that we have to for future thumbtack is just the need the need to get more investment in this space.

Honestly, um, Women's health gets Of all of the healthcare research and development dollars, 4%. Wow. And if you break it down further, Femtech gets probably about 2 percent of all venture capital dollars. And that's it for women's health care, despite the fact that we are 50 percent of the population. Um, yeah, and when you look at even NIH funding, um, things like that, right?

It's still around kind of the 4 percent mark [00:35:00] for women's health care.

Both: A

Bethany Corbin: lot of founders, um, gosh, I would say almost a hundred percent of founders that I've talked to and worked with have difficulty getting males to understand why this is an important industry. And because the venture capital landscape is so heavily male dominated, it's very difficult to get money and to get funding.

So I think that's kind of our next challenge on the horizon. I think it's, I think we have a huge potential. I think we just have to find a way to kind of break down that barrier in how we talk about Femtech to the male investors and get more money.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, well, and I, you know, we just need more of these big, you know, investment firms to understand the value of what we're trying to do with women.

Exactly.

Bethany Corbin: And to not squirm whenever they talk about periods or the pregnancy process or things like that.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. So, so very inspiring, um, everything that you're doing, but who inspires you?

Bethany Corbin: Oh my goodness. You know, it, it's [00:36:00] really interesting. I have had, um, one source of inspiration that's really been constant.

Um, and it's, it's not who anybody would expect. I'm probably somebody nobody, you know, very few people I've heard of, but since I was a little kid, I had been so inspired, um, by Araceli Segarra, who is a mountain climber. Um, and she was just, you know, one of the first, um, People that, you know, of her have her race to really summit Mount Everest and all of these other, you know, huge cliffs and peaks.

And so I've always been really inspired by her story about, you know, how she how she was the first woman to do it, how she was able to really overcome those barriers in her life that were trying to, you know, stop her, preclude her from getting to where she was in her lifetime. Um, I actually had the chance to meet her whenever I was seven or eight years old.

Yeah. I got to have a signed Everest book from her. Um, and that's just always been kind of a source of inspiration for me to say, you know what? Don't give up. Um, you know, you're going to have roadblocks. It's not going to be easy. It's not meant [00:37:00] to be easy. And so as you get those roadblocks, think about what they're trying to teach you.

Think about how you might be able to overcome them or how you might have to pivot. Um, because you know, nobody's journey is going to be, you know, linear. Um, it looks more like a child's cartoon drawing than a straight line. And so, so that's always been something that's really powerful and inspiring to me is just watching her and how How she overcame those barriers and really what that looks like as well.

Whenever you apply it into your own life, when you're not a mountain climber, right, or a rock climber, um, or doing something to that extreme. But you know, those lessons are still very powerful.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. That's awesome. Um, so, so in our, in our lives as women, we give away our power all the time. And I feel like, you know, whether it's, you know, giving somebody else credit or and we were just talking about this in terms of like, everybody gets ownership.

Yes. Okay. But can you tell me about a time that you gave your power away? [00:38:00] And then maybe another time where you stepped into your power as a woman?

Bethany Corbin: Yeah, you know, um, it happens so frequently. And I will say that this has been something I've had to learn over time about kind of how to I'm going to have to stand up for myself.

Um, because you know, right, I am, I am a woman, right? And I'm somebody who confrontation is not really fun for me, even though I am a lawyer. Um, and you know, so for example, one instance was, um, when I was working as a law professor, I was actually being taken advantage of in the role. I was being, I was new law professor.

And I was also overseeing a master of studies in law program. And it was very interesting because the faculty members were actually going, you know, to the Dean on my behalf and saying, this is way too much for one person to take on. You would never ask, you know, any other entry level law professor to do everything that you've asked her to do.

Yeah. We're teaching JD courses, teaching MSL courses and running an MSL program. Um, you would never, you would never ask that of anybody else. [00:39:00] And. Unfortunately, you know, there were funding, um, funding constraints at the university at that time. They didn't have a chance to hire anybody else. And it just came to the point where I completely burned out, um, from all of the work that was happening, you know, from not being able to stick up for myself.

And I remember going into the Dean's office and basically telling her that I was quitting because there wasn't a way for me to do this job. to my standards of excellence. And I had been asking as well for support and I needed support and I, you know, was not, you know, unfortunately, um, able to get any.

And so I just remember during that conversation in which I resigned and she, her telling me that she was so disappointed in me. Um, and that, you know, that I was, you know, Making a huge mistake and I was letting the entire university down and how could I do that? And you know, this was just terrible and unprofessional of me not to stay on and complete out, you know, all of these responsibilities that really never should have been placed on me.

And I remember just sitting there and I was so burned out [00:40:00] and I did think, you know what? Yeah, she's right. This is my fault. Um, you know what? Maybe I am not professional. Maybe this is, you know, something that's wrong with me. And I remember leaving that meeting and feeling really demoralized You know, not having stood up for myself and you know, it's funny because I got home and I was talking to my dad about it.

He's like, so why'd you sit there and take it? I'm like, that's a great question. Why did I sit there and take it? Um, and why didn't I stand up for myself? And to this day, I absolutely regret not standing up for myself and kind of giving away that power and basically saying, yeah, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to allow you to treat me this way and to abuse me in a way that should never, you know, never have happened for somebody who was new and in my.

situation in my shoes. Um, so that's definitely one where I gave the power away and, you know, didn't stand up for myself in a way that I absolutely should have. And I absolutely hate that to this day.

Both: Um,

Bethany Corbin: one where I kind of took the power back. Um, so that was, you know, there's, there's a couple of interesting scenarios there, but the [00:41:00] one I would, I would say, um, Is that I was actually a victim of domestic abuse, um, and this was in college, um, and, you know, I was dating a, I was dating a fantastic guy or so I had thought, um, and, you know, he had, he had ended up, um, hitting me one night and I called the cops and I ended up pressing charges and going through the entire criminal procedure and the process there and really kind of taking back ownership of that narrative and saying, you know what, I'm not, I'm not I'm not going to be a victim.

I'm not going to allow him to do this to somebody else. And really taking that power back, not only through the criminal justice system, but also the university's honor council, and kind of really pursuing it there as well, even though it was one of the most difficult times in my life. Um, and I, You know, the time, you know, you kind of hate yourself for doing it, but you know, it's the right thing to do because he could absolutely do this to somebody else in the future.

Um, so that was one in which I was able to really kind of step into that power may not have been something I wanted to do, [00:42:00] but it's something I knew that for me, I needed to do in order to protect other women.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, absolutely. Good for you for doing that. Even if it's, you know, um, cause I, I mean, there was a time when, you know, I was in a, uh, and uh, abuse of marriage and everybody's like, why didn't you call the police?

And it's like, you know, you have a hundred excuses. Well, well, because I was protecting his daughters while I was protecting this while I was doing this. And at the, you know, at the end of the day, all it meant is he gets to go out and do this again to somebody else. Right. And so, you know, kudos to you for taking a stand and saying, no, this is going on record and I'm not, I'm going to have a voice in this and I'm not going to, you know, cower and let this just, you know, go to the wayside, which is what they, most

Bethany Corbin: abusers assume will happen.

So yeah, no, and it's, and it's really difficult, right? It's, I mean, that was the hardest time period of my life because I didn't want to have to do that. You know, I hated having to do it. Of course, you have all the emotions of still, you know, being in love with somebody who had done that to you. Um, and there's just knowing that you kind of had this [00:43:00] moment.

broader responsibility, um, was really kind of what powered me through. But like you, you know, I got all the questions from, from friends and family. Well, why'd you stay in that for that so long? Right. Why didn't you leave? Why didn't you just kick his ass?

Angela Gennari: Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. I can totally relate.

So, um, so what advice would you give to your 18 year old?

Bethany Corbin: Yeah. You know, one of the key pieces of advice I think I would say is you don't have to have it all figured out.

Both: Yeah, I

Bethany Corbin: was. I was that person who, at 18, I was like, great, this is my life. It is totally planned out. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to be a doctor, right?

I'm going to do this kind of residency and this type of fellowship. Um, and I'm going to have two kids, right? And I'm going to get married at this age and it's going to be perfect. And I will say none of that happened. Um, and, and I always, you know, and it's sad, right? Because of course, right, you're, you're a little cocky 18 year old.

And so you think like, oh, that person doesn't have their life figured out. I kind of look down on them. Um, and I think that they're actually. Doing it a lot better than [00:44:00] what I did, where they took the time to allow themselves to explore the different fields that were available to them. Maybe they took a gap year and tried to figure it out and take that time off.

I'm so envious now, right, looking back, and I said, wow, they had time to really explore what they were interested in. I marched straight ahead on this path of going through college super fast and law school super fast and going into an industry that I had no passion for. And then having to pivot and do another degree and find out what I was passionate about later on in life when maybe if I had allowed myself more flexibility, especially in my early stages in college to try out different courses or not try to take different courses.

10 science classes in one semester and kill myself, um, maybe that would have allowed me to realize I was interested in healthcare from a career perspective a lot sooner. So I would definitely, I tell myself, slow down. It's okay to not know what you want to do. You shouldn't know what you want to do at this stage.

And to just be open to the other possibilities that might come along because an industry like Femtech may not exist [00:45:00] when you go to college or law school. But. You know, kind of stay abreast of what's happening and what's changing and allow yourself to be passionate about things and allow that passion to change and grow with you.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. Amen to that. So, Bethany, this has been a really great conversation. I've enjoyed everything we've talked about, and I think our audience has really learned a ton. I know I have learned a ton. Um, this has been really insightful. I mean, there was so much that I, I have learned from you about Femtech and the industry and what you do.

What's out there in the future of Femtech. But, um, one last question that I have for you. What do you wish more people knew?

Bethany Corbin: You know, I wish more people honestly knew about Femtech. Um, cause it has been a recent survey that shows like 86 percent of women have never heard of Femtech. And I absolutely believe that because it, right.

It a is new, but it. Women's health isn't something that we talk about, right? And so, so because of that, and because of the censorship that we have with Facebook and Instagram and [00:46:00] online social media channels, there's actually no good way for femtech companies to get the news out about their products to consumers.

And so a lot of women don't even realize that these products are being developed for them in order to know, like, yeah, I should be buying this in order to then tell investors to increase funding that way. So it's this. huge catch 22 that we have. And I think, you know, going forward, we need to find a way in which to get the consumer population more knowledgeable and involved, not only in femtech, but about women's health in general, from an early age so that we can stop seeing these as taboo topics that can't be discussed online or in public, and rather see them as this is women's health care, this is going to benefit everyone.

And we need to start putting dollars and resources into making it accessible. So I do wish more people knew about Femtech. Um, you know, obviously it's growing industry. It's a great industry. Um, it has its faults like any other industry does, but the more that we can get the information out there, um, the better off we're going to be long term for [00:47:00] women's health.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. And, you know, I look at it as a, a, An infant industry, you know, we're, we're at infant stages. And I mean, look at Bitcoin, look at the internet, look at, I mean, everybody has had their challenges when you're kind of starting out and figuring out, you know, how to walk. And I think femtech has a great future and I'm really excited about what you're doing and all the work that you're putting in.

So thank you for everything that you're doing out there to increase awareness and to advocate for women in health.

Bethany Corbin: Oh, thank you, Angela. And I appreciate the opportunity to come on your show and to spread that awareness. So thank you for having me.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. Well, guys, you can check out Bethany Corbin on pretty powerful podcast.

com. All of her information will be there. And then how else can they find you, Bethany?

Bethany Corbin: Yeah. So I'm very active on LinkedIn. You can find me at LinkedIn. com slash in slash Bethany Corbin, or you can reach out to me via email. It's Bethany at FEM, F E M, innovation. com.

Angela Gennari: Awesome. Thank you guys so much for joining us for another episode of the pretty powerful podcast and we will see [00:48:00] you next time.

Thanks so much. Have a great day.

Intro: Thank you for joining our guests on the pretty powerful podcast and we hope you've gained new insight and learn from exceptional women. Remember to subscribe or check out this and all episodes on pretty powerful podcast. com visit us next time and until then step into your own power.