Episode 87: Jen Joe

Jen Joe

Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Pretty Powerful Podcast, where powerful women are interviewed every week to share real inspiring stories and incredible insight to help women or anyone break the barriers, be a part of innovation, shatter the glass ceiling, and dominate to the top of their sport, industry, or life's mission.

Join us as we celebrate exceptional women and step into our power. And now here's your host, Angela Gennari.

Angela Gennari: Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of the pretty powerful podcast. My name is Angela Gennari and I'm here with Jen Jo. Hi Jen.

Both: Hi.

Angela Gennari: So Jen Jo is a business mentor for introverted coaches who would rather be off living their best life than spending hours posting on social media or DMing strangers.

Jen teaches them to lean into what's natural for them and uses her proven impact method to help even the most introverted person gain the [00:01:00] skill and confidence to fill their calendar with paying clients. She takes her years of experience as a curriculum writer and teacher trainer to develop top notch programs that deliver results to 100 percent of clients who use them.

And when she's not transforming the lives of her clients, you can find her enjoying the expat lifestyle in Mexico or lighting up the dance floor with her amateur salsa moves. I love that. Where do you live in Mexico?

Jen Joe: It's Merida, Mexico as of right now, but I am scouting out Guadalajara to check out if I like it a little better.

Angela Gennari: Nice. Very lovely. Well, that's beautiful. Yes. I've been to Mexico many, many times. So congrats on that move. That's exciting.

Jen Joe: Yeah. Life has been amazing. It's been, yeah, half almost.

Angela Gennari: Oh, that's amazing.

Jen Joe: Okay, good for you. And where were you prior to Mexico? I was living in Houston. I'm originally from New York.

And then I got the hustle and bustle and mostly the cold, lower pace of life, better cost of living, warmer weather. And then I [00:02:00] was there for nine years. And I was like, Okay, it's never felt like home here. Let me go. This opportunity now that I work for myself, I'm completely remote. Let's go see where I really like and then many that just kept coming up in my YouTube search.

So

Angela Gennari: nice Yeah, very, very cool. So, um, I was from the Northeast as well. I grew up in Pennsylvania, and, um, after the blizzard of 96, I said, I will never, ever, that was epic . I, I'll never dig myself out of a blizzard again. And yes. Um, so I had to pay, I was in college. I didn't own a shovel, so. Pay a homeless guy to help me shovel out my car.

So I go to work. So I, cause he was walking around with a shovel kind of helping everybody out and you could just pay him and he would do it. And I just said, you know what, I'm never going to own a snow shovel in my entire adult life. And so I just moved South until it stopped snowing.

Both: Yeah.

Jen Joe: People romanticize the snow when they haven't experienced it [00:03:00] from the Northeast or, you know, North and you know, what it's like to actually live with it.

You're like, no. It's nice walling. It looks pretty. But then after that, it's just hell to try to get rid of and deal with on a regular basis. Yeah.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Yeah. It looks, it looks pretty in the movies in LA when it's fake snow, but they're not, they're not the ones with like the brown gross slush that is what flies up on you when you're trying to, when you're trying to walk across the street and like your feet are always wet.

Jen Joe: Yeah. Or the sleet and where you're going to fall. Right. I've fallen. Right, and I went to Catholic school, so I had the little skirt and tights, and I've shown up, like, wet,

Angela Gennari: falling. Yeah, having to bring snowshoes, and then change into your regular shoes, and then you have to lug those things around all day.

Yeah, it's not that nice. It's, it's, no, no, it's not for me. Where are you now? I'm in Atlanta.

Jen Joe: Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. So I, I moved until, uh, now snow is like the threat of flurries causes complete [00:04:00] panic and everybody shuts down. So there's no going out in the snow here, which is okay. Like even like, even though we get flurries like once every four years, you know, we just shut the whole city down and say, we're not dealing with that stuff.

Jen Joe: I'm dealing with 105 degree weather here now. Okay. All right. Complete opposite. And I'm like, Too much. I think I can find a better, happy medium. That's right.

Angela Gennari: Very cool. So you got into a very interesting little niche. So you're talking about doing coach, um, business mentoring for introverted coaches. So what, what steered you in that direction?

Jen Joe: It was actually, I have a background in education, so I was everything from a teacher to administrator to a teacher, trainer and curriculum writer in my own company writing curriculum and just knew that staying in education wasn't going to be it for me. There's just too much that I. An experience personally, um, that the whole system itself needed a whole redoing.

Um, that I, I just, [00:05:00] as many years as I put in, I just couldn't fix the issues that I saw. And it was never going to give me the time freedom that I wanted, the control that I wanted, the flexibility that I wanted, the ability to live anywhere. Like it was just way too many things and roadblocks for me to ultimately have the life that I wanted while being in that industry.

So I hired my coach back in like 2016, and it was literally me being all into personal development and hearing about, okay, everything that I read or saw goes up and stuff. Everybody was just like, get a coach, get a coach. And I was like, okay, this is the next natural step. I'll get a coach. And I hired a coach in hopes of helping me figure out what I could do next.

But I remember vividly explaining this vision that I had a year or more prior to hiring her. I was like, okay, this is the vision. I hadn't told anybody this. Cause it just felt really weird to say I sold a group of people achieve their goals. Like I just, I wanted, that would be amazing if I could get paid to do that.

And she was like, Coaching. And I was like, what? No, [00:06:00] that's not what we're doing. You're just like listening to my problems and helping me figure it out. That's different. So it took me a while to kind of like accept that she was right. And that's exactly what I wanted to be doing. And when I did, it was not easy at all.

Like I watch people and they're like, Oh, yeah, I decided. And then the next year I made 100, 000. And the year after that, I tripled that. I'm like, what? That was not my experience at all. Yeah. Like at all. At all and not really crying. Right. Um, so eventually once I did accept that the following year I did start telling people that this is what I was gonna do and getting comfortable with saying it.

Then I was met with lots of self-doubt in a way that I didn't really ex like see other people that were being successful talking about any of it. So I was like, this must be a me thing, right. Self doubt that I'm experiencing around it and having trouble just even saying it, like really promoting and being out there.

Um, so it took me a while and I was like, you know what? It's because I'm not certified yet. That's what I need. So I went and got [00:07:00] certified and I finished that certification program and I was like, where's the confidence?

Both: Yeah. It did not show

Jen Joe: up, it did not magically show up, nor did the clients, right?

Because somehow I, and apparently many other people have this belief that once you get that certification, the confidence is going to show up and the clients are going to show up. Yeah. If you build it, they will come. Right? Yeah. It's like, I'm ready. I set up, I have a website. It's finally live. Like I told a few people like, where are the clients, right?

Where's my level of belief that this is a sure thing and that I can actually deliver. And it just didn't happen. And I struggled for so long until it was literally the end of 2019. When I made my first dollars

Both: and

Jen Joe: what I realized, and it was like the happiest time of my life. I literally made less than 2, 000.

And I had been looking at this 2016 I had the realization, and I had been going through the motions and through the process, and it wasn't until 2019 when I made less than 2, 000 and I was like, Oh my god, amazing. [00:08:00] I made it. I made it. Right and I knew that he's logically I did have. Um, I had had a consulting company before that.

So like I knew what real money was, but that just proved to me that it was possible.

Both: Mm hmm.

Jen Joe: I figured it out and I had cracked the code of what actually mattered in this process. And I say to this day, there's a Facebook post in my Facebook group. And I made the announcement that I would live abroad that I was going to quit my job and I was going to move abroad and I was like going all in on my coaching business and I made this announcement in 2019 like I had just, you know, like it wasn't enough to live off of, but I was so certain that what I had figured out would work.

And that was so committed to the process that come 2020 I was, I was going to do this full time like this is going to be my thing. Which is funny. Everybody knows what happened in 2020. [00:09:00] Um, but, um, so I was off by a few months because I wanted to leave June, 2020, but it wasn't until, um, September, 2020 that I did eventually quit my job and go full time in my business.

And then eventually, you know, I am living abroad. So yeah. It did the things.

Angela Gennari: That's so awesome. Well, good for you. I love, I love people who set goals and then like ferociously go after them. So, um, I love that. So you talk a lot about confidence and like, how do you get your confidence and how do you do this?

And so talk to me a little bit about what it took for you to get that confidence. Because I think a lot of people go into any new venture, like, do I belong here? Is this for me? Tell me about your experience in that journey.

Jen Joe: Yeah. So of course I was following a bunch of people and seeing what they did and like consuming a lot and trying to produce, but I always felt like I was falling short.

Like I, there was this piss, this missing piece that I just didn't have because I would watch them do it [00:10:00] and they just seemed so comfortable doing it. Um, and then the volume at which they were doing it, right? Like this whole idea of posting on social media multiple times a day. And I'm like, I just don't have that energy.

I don't have the time. I don't have the bandwidth. I don't have the skills to be successful at this because I've been trying. Right. But it wasn't working. And that's when I really had to lean into, okay, what's my way of doing it. Right. Where are the gaps for me and how can I fill them so that I feel like I can show up and can have this business.

And being willing for it to not look the way that it was looking for everybody else. Because what I eventually realized right now that I, I see, and I, I leashed down to say, I help introverted coaches is that I was trying to follow a lot of extroverts in the format that they have and what they're doing and what comes natural to them.

And I'm pushing myself and I'm like whipping myself to do it and then shaming myself because I can't, or it's not working. Right. So I had to be willing to let all of that go and then take a few steps back. [00:11:00] And meet myself where I was and what felt good to me. And so the way that I built my confidence, instead of just going out there and starting to charge high prices, it's like a lot of people teach, right?

Like just, and then you'll get quality clients. I'm like, well, I don't know where these people are. I was in education. Like these people aren't rolling in the Dell like that, you know, like this is my network. Um, I had to be willing to step back and be like, Okay, I don't even feel comfortable charging something high.

Why don't I just offer it for free? Right? What? Why don't I just build my confidence in helping someone right now that I feel like I can help and see and let's see where it goes. And that's what I did in 2019. I offered to help two people that I knew that could benefit from, from my services and that built my confidence.

And then after that I did offer, because they were asking, what do I have to do to continue working with you after our time, even before we finished our six weeks, they were like, okay, like I want this to continue, this has been really beneficial. And then I put a price tag on it that I felt I could deliver on [00:12:00] and I could totally feel really great about serving them in this way.

And then that's when I was like, okay. Serving people first right at the level where I am at and that I feel comfortable with and just serving more people that I feel like I can solve that particular problem for them. Sure, I'll do that. And I found a platform that already had a bunch of people looking for coaching and I just leaned in all the way to that.

No one had ever been talking about that. Right. But I like, I'm like, that's where I found, and it was my brother who asked me, how'd you find your first coach? And I was like, I told him, he was like, why don't you do that? And I was like, that's kind of genius. Okay. And it actually worked. It really, really worked because it allowed me to, um, offer my services to people that already wanted it.

Um, for me, the opportunity to stop wasting so much time on being on social media and trying to learn all these other skills that I just did not have to be able to make that system work. Right. And it allowed me to fully blow my business to [00:13:00] full time income that following year. So from less than 2, 000 to full time income in part time hours.

Angela Gennari: That's amazing. So I love that. And I love that you figured out what works for you because so many people try to find the, you know, the exact formula that everybody else was doing, because if it works for everybody, it should work for me too. And that is so not true. And not only that, but you're, you're putting yourself into a situation where you are now competing at.

At their level at, well, you're, you're competing in their game, but you're not at their level. And, and that is the hardest part that entrepreneurs and small business owners have to figure out, you know, like with me, I mean, I'm in the security industry and I've already decided like there are certain large companies in my industry.

I can't play at, I can't play their game at their level. It's just not the same. You know, we're, we're a, You know, a small minor percentage of what they are in terms of [00:14:00] revenue and scope and scale and all these other things, and we just can't do it. So what we do is we do what we do better than anybody. So, you know, the best thing that you can do is really figure out your secret sauce and then double down on that and then really go and lead with that.

Jen Joe: You really, really hit it on the head because so many people are looking at the people that they admire, that they, um, that they consume from, and they, that's what we aspire to do. We want to do it at that level. It's like what you do. Yes, you don't have the funds. You don't have the customer base. You don't have the years of experience.

You don't have the team to be able to execute at that level. Yet those are the strategies that we're trying to implement. And this is why I always felt like I was falling so far behind and falling short of what I felt like it should be or should look like.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Because instead of looking in the mirror, you're looking, you know, at them.

So, you know, you're looking at them and saying, well, what do they have? And, you know, how do I get [00:15:00] that? That's not what you want. You want to look in the mirror and say, what do I have? And how can I create more of, you know, what I do best? So that that's brilliant. I'm glad that you decided to take that step because I'm sure it was a major pivot point for you.

Extremely.

Jen Joe: Yes.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. But

Jen Joe: led to my success and my progress that I now get to help other people with.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. And I love that you decided that you were going to go ahead and increase your confidence by doing it for free at first, because sometimes just the ability to help somebody is not enough. will come back to you because you're like, okay, this is what worked for me.

Because if you were nervous about charging people at all, you know, then, then that was a strategy that worked for you. You know, it's not going to work for everybody. And, and I definitely don't say go give your services away for, for free forever and ever. And you're like, you have to, yeah, you have to turn it into a business eventually, but it's a great way to build your confidence.

It's a, it's a great way. If you have other income coming in, you know, which you did, you were [00:16:00] able to use that parlay, your. You're, you know, experience into, okay, now I can do some paying gigs because now not only do I have, I helped people and I've built my confidence, but also you can probably get some great references there.

Jen Joe: Yes. Right. Because the, like in my process, if you're coming at me from zero, that's, yeah, that has. Part of it because I want you to be certain that you know how to do this work and you have real results. And even if those first few people that you did it for free for don't turn into your paying clients.

Both: Yeah.

Jen Joe: They are your cheerleaders. They are your referral source. They know people and they can lead. Future paying clients into you. So don't ever feel like it's a waste of time, but like you said, there has to be a limit. We can't just keep giving it for free because the business requires because, right. If not you don't have a hobby.

Exactly.

Angela Gennari: You haven't, you have a hobby and you've devalued, you know, what you do. So you definitely want to use that experience and then just parlay that into something that turns into, you know, [00:17:00] uh, it's a revenue. So, so you, um, You're an introvert, right? So you are an introvert and you're going into a very extroverted field, you know, all about, you know, showing your expertise and helping others.

And, but teaching is also fairly extroverted. Wouldn't you agree?

Jen Joe: Yes. Right. It is. You do kind of feel like you're a performer when you're on. Um, and even training, like You know, I, I'm very quiet and stuff, but if I'm up and I'm presenting, I can do that. Right?

Both: Yeah. But the thing

Jen Joe: is, I'm gonna have to rest after Mm-Hmm.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it my all and it's gonna be amazing, but I'm gonna be tired. Yeah. I'm gonna need my rest time and I'm gonna need a lots of time to recoup and to get back doing it. So I needed ways that would be sustainable for me to keep on doing it. Mm-Hmm. I need market. That didn't drain me to the point where I'm like, I, I need to just be away from everybody for a week.

Yeah. Um, and I think that's the key of, and helping my, my clients find that for them because it's not always the same thing for me. [00:18:00] Right. Like for me, I love podcasting. I'm like, that's a one on one conversation. I get to go deep. We get to connect. Perfect. Um, some people like networking events. I'm like, Oh, all that small talk feels awkward to me.

I'm not a fan. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They know, they know how to get in there and do that. Um, I, I have a past client who loved doing tick tock

Both: and

Jen Joe: media and I'm like, she loved it. I'm like, great. Do your thing.

Both: Yup.

Jen Joe: Yup. But it's just a matter of finding what that thing is for you. That is sustainable.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Very cool.

So you developed something called the impact method. So can you tell me a little bit about that and what it, what it means for your business?

Jen Joe: Yeah, so the impact method is basically all the components. It's a framework that you follow, um, to make sure you're hitting all aspects that need to be in line for you to be successful in this.

Um, identity shift has to be a big one. I think that one took me a long time because I had been in education for so long. And the idea of even saying that I was a coach was so difficult because I [00:19:00] felt like it sounded kind of corny. Like, what do you mean you're a coach? Like, what, like that's a popular thing.

So everybody's kind of doing it. Yeah. You know, so I had a lot of that going through my mind. So getting comfortable with that. Um, the mindset shift is an excellent. It's like really treating this like, no, this is a business. You're not an employee, like get okay with the idea that income will fluctuate and you still have to do the money generating activities.

You have to show up for it or you're not going to get a paycheck. Um, Yeah, so the P is the practice, right? We talked about practicing the skill and being okay with just practicing it even without pay at sometimes just to build your confidence

Both: in

Jen Joe: doing the thing that you're trying to do now, right? Like in creating that practice container.

So it's successful for you and for the people that you're supporting. Um, then attracting clients, the, how are you out there attracting them? What works, what feels natural? What feels good? What's actually working, evaluating it. What can we let go of? I was so happy when I made the conscious decision that my social media could just be for fun.

That's just extra. [00:20:00] It did not have to be the thing that brought in money. Right. Um, yeah, see, that makes sense. Yeah. See, as the consultation calls, you have to know how to have productive consultation calls because without. Sales, you have no business and it can actually feel good. And I always teach that it's serving the other person, right?

You are literally serving them for free on this call and giving them the opportunity to get more value by working with you. Right. And just coming from that place, it actually doesn't feel like you're being sales. Right when really embody that in your conversations and then the T is transitioning to full time like what needs to be in place because my first time quitting my job to do the consulting.

Oh my gosh it was horrible the way that I left I just I was like okay I'm gone I just can't take this anymore. And then I was super stressed out about money, I was doing some crazy things like renting out rooms in my house, just so that I didn't have to go back to the job. And then I realized like, no, I just really need to be coaching.

So I had to shut that down, go back to the job and then grow and then [00:21:00] transition properly. It's a coaching full time, like having, making sure I had the things in place so that I didn't have to run back to having a job again.

Angela Gennari: That makes so much sense. So when you, when you're talking about transitioning, that can be the hardest and scariest part, right?

Because you're putting a hundred percent of your trust. In you and your ability. Um, and so it's one thing to collect a paycheck and say somebody else is out here and that's my safety net, but you're, you're basically taking away your safety net and saying, it's okay, I'm going to walk across this tightrope right now with no safety net.

And it's so scary. It is.

Jen Joe: And you, and it's funny because people think, well, if you're making good money doing that thing, then like, why would you be afraid? But this, I, I had, I knew the reality of being an entrepreneur prior and I knew what it was. Those, those mumps fluctuate. It goes up and down and you need to be willing to deal with it and be okay.

With, um, making some changes and just to set yourself up [00:22:00] for success. So I made a big change that people thought was crazy, but I sold my house. I was like, okay, I care more about being in business full time and living this lifestyle that I want to have. More than I care about this home. I want to buy a home with coaching money, right?

The money that I made from coaching. So I can buy a house again, but I'm going to get rid of this. Um, and prior to that, like I told you, I was willing to rent rooms out in the house so that I didn't have to keep the job, but knowing your numbers and having a plan of what you're going to do should everything fall apart really helps.

Um, I think it was Tim Ferriss that I heard this from, but it was kind of like the worst case scenario planning. And planning for that. And I really had to call my, my, my nerves and my whole nervous system about the process, knowing that tenure in education, worse comes to worse. Someone will hire you back.

They need people. I mean, even if you can't go back at the level that you were because I was an administrator and I was higher [00:23:00] up and I was doing training and developing a curriculum and everything like that, even if you can't go back to that level, you can go get a job. Yeah. You will be all right. I will take care of you.

And, like, I literally told myself, I will take care of you. Oh, I love that. Yeah, because it was very real, like, this fear of the worst that could happen. And I had experience, um, from when I was younger, being with a partner and being evicted because I thought my partner was paying rent. And that created some serious trauma around money, right?

So just like telling myself, like, we're okay. I saved enough money here. And if worst comes to worst, we have this thing. And remember, we sold the house. So we have that cash sitting there just in case we have a cushion. And then, um, being willing to lower my expenses, right? Like moving abroad also helped because I lowered my expenses.

So just really running through the numbers, running through all the things that could happen, running through the process of worst case comes, what would I do? [00:24:00] Um, who would I turn to? Do I have access to all the things and making sure that I felt okay with it? And then reminding myself, I have skills that an employer would find valuable and that I could always go back and not shaming myself for the thought that if I did have to go back, I would.

Because that's a that's the biggest thing. I think it's the it's the fear of like, what will others say or what will others think? And it's really what will we think of ourselves? If I do have to resort to going back to that.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. And everybody looks at that as like a worst case scenario, but it really is not, you know, cause that's, that's the one part about being an entrepreneur is sometimes you fail and, and the best thing you can do is get right back up.

And, and so if you have to go and, and fail, Fail and reassess and, you know, go back to a regular job and it's not the worst thing ever. You know, the worst thing ever is, you know, when you're trying to do something and you hurt somebody else in the process, right? Like that's the worst [00:25:00] thing ever. And so as long as you know, you did give it your best and you just need to reevaluate, you just need to reassess.

There's nothing shameful about going back and saying, okay. I tried that. It didn't work. It's okay. Let me figure out how to try again differently and that's okay. And so, you know, that's one thing we got to give ourselves a little bit of grace and it's the hardest thing to do because we want to succeed so badly and our heart is in it and our brain is in it.

And, you know, we're, we're fully invested in ourselves and we don't want to let ourselves down.

Jen Joe: Yeah. And I think coming to the realization that I wasn't going to stop trying to build this business. Like it was always going to be something that I was striving for and pouring into. Even if I did go back and get that job, I wasn't going to stop trying because my heart was in it and I was all in.

And I was like, you know what? Even if I just made the same amount of money that I made my job, doing this. I would be so happy [00:26:00] knowing that I have full control, knowing that I could do this wherever I am, that would be worth it. And Thinking about the worst case scenario, like part of the worst case to me is thinking that I never gave myself the opportunity to see it through.

Absolutely. I have that like, I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't want to live with that regret. Right. With, okay, I tried my hardest. Yeah. So I kept trying and I always kept trying, trying, but it didn't work out. Oh, I just maybe would have, would have.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Yeah. And you always will live with that too. And it'll feel like, you know, you just never believed in yourself enough and it's hard to come back from that.

So that's really, I mean, it's amazing that you decided to jump in and, and You know, achieve these goals and, you know, you gave yourself a reasonable timeline. You gave yourself reasonable goals and success looks different for everyone. You know, success isn't always making six or seven figures. Sometimes success is, Hey, [00:27:00] I, you know, I have freedom.

I have enough, you know, to, to be able to live the lifestyle that I want. I work two days a week. That's success. You know, like everybody just defines success differently. You know, some people say I have more time to spend with my kids. Some people say I can travel more. And so, you know, you just have to remember that just because somebody else has defined success in a certain way, doesn't mean that's it.

That's the same way you have to define success. So figure out what your success looks like, and then, you know, make sure that you're catering to that and not just trying to, you know, kind of keep up with the Joneses kind of a thing where it's always, you know, trying to get to meet somebody else's idea of what you should be doing.

Jen Joe: Yeah, I love that. Um, and that, that's a big one because people thought I was crazy to move abroad. And, you know, they're like, what do you mean? Why are you selling your house? Why are you doing this? But I knew what mattered most to me. I was like, no, I like having stacks of money in the bank. Like, that makes me feel good.

I like it. [00:28:00] The freedom I have to be able to go live anywhere. Now I'm not one of those nomad people that want to move all the time like, Oh, no, I like stability, but I do like the freedom that I can try out different countries. Um, this is this is. amazing to me, and it was so worth it. It was so worth it.

And of course, there's moments where, you know, it's stressful. Self doubt still creeps in. Um, I'm, I'm working through those exercises, right? You, you want to go to the next level and you're striving to make even more to help even more people, but I would not trade it for the world. Like, yeah, this was the right move for me.

Angela Gennari: That's really amazing. And, and I applaud you for, for living abroad. Cause I've, I've threatened it so many times. I'm like, I'd love to live abroad. And then, you know, one thing happens, another thing happens, and then you never take the opportunity. And now you have a kid in school and you're like, yeah, maybe when he graduates, so, yeah, I applaud you for taking that risk and doing something that was going to be really meaningful, um, to [00:29:00] you, so that's, that's great.

That's amazing. So you decided to get into coaching from teaching. And I feel like both of them are very similar, you know, in terms of being an influence in somebody's life and being, you know, somebody who can help guide and instruct them. And a lot of people talk about coaching being so similar to therapy.

And that's kind of what you were talking about in the very beginning, your first coach, you know, you're like, you know, I feel like she's telling me something that I need to hear. And it's almost like therapy. So tell me the difference between coaching and therapy and teaching really.

Jen Joe: Yeah. So with, I love this question because no one's ever added the teaching component, but when I think of therapy, right, you're, you're taking someone who's not producing at the baseline level, right?

So they're, they're below the baseline and they were just trying to, and especially focused on what caused this right from the past, what in the past happened that's causing this now. Right? And let's find some closure and healing from that so that we [00:30:00] can get to the baseline. Now with coaching, we're taking people that are at the baseline or above the baseline and want to go even higher, right?

There's something that they're striving for. Their life is fine. Like they're, they're, they're okay. And we're really future focused thinking about who they want to be, what they want to create, who they want to become. Um, teaching is different in the sense of teaching. You are the one with all the knowledge, right?

And you're sharing this, this expertise and this knowledge with. Those that you are teaching. Um, she is really trusting that the person you are in front of has value. They, they're bringing a lot. They have the answers. We have to just pull it out. We have to help them see. I teach my clients that when we, when I'm training them as coaches, like what you're doing is holding the mirror for your client,

Both: your

Jen Joe: mirror.

So they see their thoughts and what, what this action that they're doing is producing. And they get to decide whether or not this is working for them and what they're, they're willing to do differently. So I, in my practice, I'm [00:31:00] a mentor that as I tell them, listen, there's moments where I'm coaching you, but then there's moments where I am your mentor and I'm going to tell you, don't do that.

That's a bad idea. Mm

Angela Gennari: hmm. Mm hmm. People are going down that

Jen Joe: road. Um, so yeah, they're, they're all very different, but there's, there's a place. And there's people to support with each one.

Angela Gennari: Yes, absolutely. Well, and I think it's so powerful because like I had avoided coaching for a long time because I'm like, I'm just too busy.

I'm too busy. I'm too busy. I'm too busy. But I recently started working with a coach. And what I'm realizing is I was too busy on the wrong things. And, you know, by giving myself that freedom and that time to really focus on the future, I can stop being in the weeds in my business. And so, you know, one of the things that has kind of come to light through this is, um, I need to be focused on the future of the business and not the operations of the business.

And so the daily operations can be handled by somebody else more effectively, because I can't be in the present and the future at the same time, all the time. So, [00:32:00] you know, you really kind of have to start adjusting to, you know, your vision, how you look at, you know, your, your, your day to day business. Are you, are you spending your time as effectively as possible?

Or can your coach help you work through those minuscule details where you're like, okay, is this the best use of your time? Or can you find somebody else who can do it as good or better than you? And most of the time the answer is yes, you know, you can find somebody who can do it better expertise more time, you know, more high touch, you know, there's so many things that can that a coach can kind of help you see, because as an entrepreneur, you just get so in the weeds and you're, you know, you can't see the forest through the trees.

And so you're just like, you know, here I am. And I'm not seeing what somebody from looking from the outside and can see.

Jen Joe: Yeah. I now have multiple coaches and for the past few years have as well. Um, and I think I'll always have a coach for some. Like whatever area of my life I'm trying to upgrade, I'm going to have a [00:33:00] coach.

So right now, uh, my dating coach and I have my business coach. Yep. Yep. Yep. Sometimes I've had just like, you know, a general life coach and a business coach or just the life coach. So yeah,

Angela Gennari: good for you. Yeah, well, and that's, you know, the self awareness is the one thing I feel like more people need and a coach helps you with that, like a coach helps you be more self aware of like, Hey, is this a me thing or a them thing or like who's causing these issues and a good bit of the time it's the person in the mirror.

And so you just have to come to that realization of like, you know, if you can't control what's happening, look at why it's happening and how you're reacting to it. And a lot of times you can change what's what's going on around you just based on your reaction to it.

Jen Joe: Yeah. And I think some people think it's funny that I'm a coach that has a coach and they're like, I'm like, yeah, but I'm like really close to my problem.

I can't see it. Right. I need an [00:34:00] outside person to give me that perspective. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, I can self coach and that that's helpful. Sometimes I'm just so in the emotion that I can't. I need someone else to just objectively tell me what show me what's happening, what I'm doing. So I can be like, Oh, I see it now.

I want to do something differently.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, I had um I was having a conversation the other day with my coach and, and she said, so what are you doing for downtime? I'm like, oh, I started reading and she's like, great. What are you reading? And I'm like, it's a book about business. And she's like, no, no, Angela, you're doing it wrong.

You're doing it wrong. That is not. She was like, oh goodness, but, but you know, she's got her work cut out for her. So I'm going to say. Um, but yeah, so that's, that's been something that has been a big difference. You know, coaches make you see things that sometimes you miss. And I think it's so important for so many of us to just have that self awareness and, you know, sometimes somebody has to show it to [00:35:00] us in order for us to really see it.

So you're, you're absolutely right.

Jen Joe: Yeah. They also help you up level, right? Like I know that. I'll give the the dating example. I am quick to just stop the process. I'm like, Oh goodness, this is stressful. I'm going to take a break. But I've been dating for so many years. She's like, you've been on a break most of those years.

You've been actively searching for this many weeks. Um, and to make me do things that pushed me out of my comfort zone that I would normally not do. Um, so right now it's, uh, business card challenge, which is basically giving hot men my business card. Oh, there you go! And I have to be giving 20, and I'm like, I would never do this on my own.

Right, it would, like, stress for me to grow.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, yeah. I love that. I love that. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm, Quick to quit on the dating thing too, because as soon as it's like, well, you know, I know, and I always use business as an excuse. Uh, I'm too busy. Oh, you know, I've got too many of the [00:36:00] things going on. Oh, I just can't focus on it right now.

And so, you know, it's really just that I don't have the tolerance. For being honest. Yes. You know, it's like, I'm tired of being set up for disappointment. I just am not going to deal with it anymore. So I just quit on it. Like, I'm just too busy. So, um, so tell me about, um, you, you went from teaching to entrepreneur and they're very, very, very, very different.

So tell me some of the pros and cons of being an entrepreneur.

Jen Joe: Oh, um, the time freedom. I see clients Monday afternoon through Thursday. Now, um, there will be a point where Mondays aren't even days that it's going to be Tuesday through Thursday. I'm slowly getting there. Um, but I purposely set up my calendar the way that I want to, I have time to take my naps.

I'm a sleepy person. Like I make my schedule where I can do that. Right. I love just being able to walk my dog in the middle of the day, do whatever I need to. I remember previously just like a 10 minute lunch, [00:37:00] start my face, get back to solving problems for people at the school building. Um, the income, there's no cap to how much I can make.

I set my pricing, right? What feels good to me. Um, the people that I get to connect with, like, yeah, that's amazing. The other people that are thinking the same way that are growing in the same way that are striving for the same things that I want to do. Mm hmm. work and live remotely. Um, that's been amazing.

And then, um, the results that I get to help my people, my clients, like that's the best. Um, I get to work with people that want to work with me as, um, a teacher development specialist. That was my actual title. I would go into these schools. And I would tell the principals like, Hey, I'm here to support your teachers, help them grow.

They would give me the teachers that, that were very reluctant to their support. So I'm dealing with people that already didn't want support from their, their superiors having to support them. They don't want me there.[00:38:00]

That's the people I want to work with. Right. Right. Um, and then, um, I was really the one that came with all the insights and, So that like I was in a position where I kind of knew more.

Both: Yeah, and that

Jen Joe: that sense And that's not always a case of my client. My clients are freaking amazing. Like they're seniors their school visionaries like they're amazing people and I get to learn so much from them and everyone's different.

So it's really really a joy Logistically, I am not Based in that location and one school or multiple schools. Like I can be wherever I do my work, wherever I see fit. So that's been really, and it's just the system of education too, that I felt was really flawed and I didn't have control over changing some of the major pieces where I have full control in my business.

Yeah. If I don't like a program or how it's being delivered, I don't see it as being [00:39:00] effective. I I'm responsible. I could change it.

Both: Yeah.

Jen Joe: Fix it. Um, and one of the things that I'm extremely proud of is that those clients that worked with me for six months. They, they all get results, like a hundred, that's unheard of, right?

But that's just my level of commitment to serving them and making sure that everyone gets what they need.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely.

Jen Joe: Yeah.

Angela Gennari: Very cool. So who inspires you?

Jen Joe: Um, I don't think I have one particular person. I mean, I have a few people that I'm like, Oh my gosh, you're so amazing. But. I think what I find most inspiring is seeing people do things in an authentic way and showing and it could be the most regular person doing, it was karaoke the other day.

I'm like, Oh my gosh, that is so inspiring. I'm here doing your thing and like just having fun with it that in itself is inspiring.

Angela Gennari: That's awesome. Yeah, I agree with you. I love seeing [00:40:00] people in their element just embracing life. I love that. So, um, as women, we often give our power away, whether that looks like, you know, taking criticism or listening to somebody tell us that we can't do something and then, you know, taking that to heart.

So, or, you know, um, something offensive, you know, sexual come ons, things like that. You know, we often give our power away by not standing up for ourselves. Can you tell me about a time that you gave your power away and maybe another time that you stepped into your power?

Jen Joe: Yes. Oh my gosh. That last few seconds.

Um, I remember, and this was back when I was teaching in New York in a prominent school, high achieving school. And, um, There was a school leader that spoke to me in a way that was extremely offensive.

Angela Gennari: And

Jen Joe: like, he chastised me like I was a child.

Angela Gennari: Wow. And

Jen Joe: it was, it was like mortifying. And then I left that situation.

And went to dinner with my cousins [00:41:00] that was already planned. And I was just worried I was going to get fired the whole time. Like he, he was in the wrong. Yeah, I'm worried I'm going to get fired. Right. And I just heard multiple situations being in school environments. And it didn't matter whether it was in New York or whether it was in Texas.

Just. The level of disrespect that was thrown my way as someone who was lower in the totem pole as a teacher,

Both: then

Jen Joe: as a black woman and what I heard and what I watched them do to the people of color in the system and how they, they took us from being in a position of, uh, school like leaders. Yeah. And we were the first ones to be pulled back into the classroom when all the teachers were quitting, but it wasn't every wow.

It wasn't, it was, it was people that looked like me and it was so cool. Um, and that, and that's when I decided to flip to switch and say, right. And I think that was a huge turning point in, I am no longer going to stay silent [00:42:00] and watch this happen and just complain with my colleagues. I'm speaking up and when I go and they asked me to go and step in and kind of essentially demote me into the classroom, even though I was a leader with way more experience than my colleague who was in the classroom last year.

I said, no, and I stood firm on that, you know, and my, my supervisor was like, well, you know, we all have to do what we have to do and we have to come together. So we'll talk about it later. I said, we, you could talk. Wow. The answer is no. Yeah. Standing firm in that was so like, I didn't care what happened next.

I was not going, I was not going to be a part of that. And I did not, I did not go. I'm sorry. Yeah. And then eventually when I was. Getting ready to leave. I made sure that I spoke up about some of the injustices. I saw rather than just leaving anything because I saw my colleagues doing that. They would just like find a job elsewhere.

And I'm like, no, but we don't speak up. This person stays in power. This continues happening to them. Nothing

Angela Gennari: [00:43:00] changes. Right? Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So many people are that same mentality of like, I don't want to say anything. I'll just go away. I just want to be done with it. I don't want to think about it anymore.

But then you have more and more and more of the same thing and nothing ever changes. So if you don't step up, if you don't say anything, you then it's just laying a pathway of, you know, I tolerance is acceptance. And so you you can't say I don't accept that and yet still tolerate it. Exactly. So

Jen Joe: I

Angela Gennari: spoke up, I

Jen Joe: definitely spoke up and, um, I just think it would be so hard going back to a job though, because of those.

Many situations that I've experienced where I'm like, I don't want to put myself in a position where that can happen to me again.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 100 percent agree with you. Well, good for you for stepping up and saying something because I know that was very difficult, but very necessary. Very cool.[00:44:00]

So what advice would 18 year old self? Oh, yeah.

Jen Joe: Girl, have fun. Yeah. And the next right step will be revealed and that's all you need to know. The next right step. Keep going. It's working. It does all come together in the end.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, I love that because no one's ever said that one before, you know, take the next right step, because you're so right.

Sometimes we just get so caught in like, well, what does six months look like? What is a year? What about tomorrow? Let's talk about tomorrow.

Jen Joe: I was still future focused. Yeah. Focused and worried about like my career and where I was going to go. Yep. Lighten up like

Angela Gennari: right, right, right. Exactly. You're

Jen Joe: going to get there.

It's all going to come together. It's going to get bigger. At

Angela Gennari: 18, I had already determined what 30 years old needed to look [00:45:00] like, you know, I had already said I need to be here at 30 years old. And when I became, you know, when I turned 30 and I wasn't there, I was so disappointed in myself. I was so just like, Gosh, I have failed at life, even though life was so good.

I had just had a brand new baby. I was, you know, like life was so good. And, and I just couldn't see it for what it was because I made this stupid thing, you know, this stupid plan when I was 18 years old and didn't know anything. And I didn't meet that, you know, and I held myself to a standard that was ridiculous from when it was started.

So. Yes. Yeah. So we, we live.

So, so I just have one more question. I've really enjoyed this. You're such a pleasure to talk to. So Jen, what would you wish more people knew?

Jen Joe: Self doubt is normal and it's okay. We don't have to wish it gone. We can work through it [00:46:00]

Angela Gennari: and

Jen Joe: take action anyway.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. And even the most successful people in the world have self doubt.

Everybody has self doubt.

Jen Joe: And, um, I think it's funny because you think, okay, well, if this was gone, then I could just do the thing, but trust at that next level, there's going to be another layer. There's another thing. Yeah. There's another thing. Um, so for that, I say, just be willing to make peace and like, you know, there's activities that you can do.

And I actually have a freebie, um, that people can go check out if they do want to work. Yeah. Just go to Jenjo. com slash self doubt. And there's exercises and activities that you can do to kind of work through it, move through it, process it. Um, and take action because it's okay. However, it looks in the beginning, it will get better.

I promise.

Angela Gennari: Yes, absolutely. And I apologize if anyone can hear my dog snoring like a grown man over here, but it's obnoxious. It's distracting. I have a hero too. Okay, good. [00:47:00] Yeah, he's over here and it sounds like a grown man is snoring right next to me and I promise you it's just a dog. So, it's funny. Um, but thank you so much, Jen.

You have been such a pleasure. So, how can people find you?

Jen Joe: Um, I am active. I'm active on LinkedIn actually, um, a little bit more lately. So Jen Jo coaching on LinkedIn as well as Instagram. I'm on Facebook. I'm an old school girl. Yep. Me too. So find me on Facebook,

Angela Gennari: uh, directly on my site, Jen Jo. com. Okay, awesome.

Well, thank you so much, Jen. You've been such a pleasure to work with and I wish you so much success. So thank you for all of your incredible insight throughout the this entire day. So I appreciate you very much and hope that you just do incredible things and help so many. So, all right, everybody, well, we will catch you on another episode of the pretty powerful podcast next week.

But you can also check out Jen Jo when you go to pretty powerful podcast. com. Thank you so much, everyone. Have an amazing day. [00:48:00]

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