Episode 91: Andrea Johnson

Andrea Johnson

Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Pretty Powerful Podcast, where powerful women are interviewed every week to share real inspiring stories and incredible insight to help women or anyone break the barriers, be a part of innovation, shatter the glass ceiling, and dominate to the top of their sport, industry, or life's mission.

Join us as we celebrate exceptional women and step into our power. And now here's your host, Angela Gennari.

Angela Gennari: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Pretty Powerful Podcast. My name is Angela Gennari and today I am here with Andrea Johnson. Hello Andrea. Hello. Hey, Angela. I'm glad to be here. Oh, good.

I'm so happy to have you. So Andrea Johnson empowers executives and founders to lead with authenticity, conviction and confidence so that they can make a positive impact on their lives, organizations and communities. Uncovering and understanding the significance of her core values became the key to the process that [00:01:00] allows our clients to become impactful leaders.

Her passion is equipping female leaders to define a new culture by trusting their own ability to think critically, create imaginatively and lead effectively. And Andrea Johnson is the CEO and founder of The Intentional Optimist. And I love that company name so much.

Andrea Johnson: Thank you.

Angela Gennari: So

Andrea Johnson: quite an introduction.

Yes.

Angela Gennari: So I'm so excited to dive into this. So what got you wanting to coach executives?

Andrea Johnson: I spent over 25 years in higher education and administration. So in three different types of institutions, the last two were schools of medicine. So I am used to working with very high powered people. And I did administrative work, operations work, research administration, where I understood and had to pass exams for all the NIH guidelines for clinical trials and grant funding and all that stuff.

But I got very used to [00:02:00] to, and I almost have a master's degree in theology. So I'm used to the higher thinkers. I'm used to the, the people who are really kind of higher powered, ready to go do something. And that, that is the kind of person that when I sit down at the table, even if it's just for dinner, those are the kind of people I'm like, Oh, let's have a conversation.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, that's what got me interested in that kind of level. Now I'm, I work with anybody who's willing to grow, right? And they may be a pre executive. They may be some, you know, maybe that they're on their way. I work with a lot of millennials who are just ready to go and they're not quite, quite there yet, but I can see the potential and they're going to go.

So that's kind of where I come from.

Angela Gennari: Oh, that's awesome. So yeah, I actually just started working with an executive coach and it has been game changing for me. And I will tell you that, um, I discounted executive coaches as, as somebody, as a CEO, I'm like, I don't have time. I don't have the time. I don't have the time.

And it was [00:03:00] always for me, like, I don't have the time for a coach. How am I going to fit that into my schedule? But I did. But now that I have a coach, I, I am so much more effective with my time. And I think that was the game changer for me. And so, you know, I'm a huge fan now when people ask me how they can improve their business.

I'm, I'm going to say, get yourself a good coach. It keeps you accountable. Oh my gosh, yes. That's an, that's

Andrea Johnson: an, I used to have a small group program that was called intentional accountability and we just met once a month and kind of set our goals and then, um, and then kind of walked through, like actually met twice a month.

We set our goals and then a couple of weeks later we came back and kind of shared with the group how we were doing that. So you can find accountability in other places, but that is a

Angela Gennari: really good takeaway. Yeah, for sure. So I think that there's just so much value that coaches bring, and it's just that that one person who doesn't have a stake in the game, you know, you don't have, you don't have a reason to steer them one way or another.

You're always looking out for the best interests of the executive and the company. And I think just having someone on your side [00:04:00] who's not, you know, getting a paycheck from the organization and has, you know, a certain agenda is, is a great asset.

Andrea Johnson: Yeah, we don't have a stake in the game. We, we have the ability to push back.

We have the, you know, half the time in a particular program that I've got going on right now, after the first meeting, literally people leave and they, they almost feel a little discouraged and I'm like, don't be discouraged. Well, because I've pushed back on some things. They're trying to discover some things and we'll talk about that in a minute, but they're trying to discover some things about themselves.

And I ask questions and I push back and I'm like, tell me more about this. Why is that a thing? And that, that. Separation from the process and from the game means that I can do that, right? Yeah, I can do that with They trust me to do that They know that's what i'm gonna do and then when they come back for the next meeting and they're like I figured it out You know, that's amazing move on and then that gives them the courage to know that they could figure out the next piece So coaches get a lot of We, we get a lot out of it too.

So yeah, it's

Angela Gennari: not just you guys. [00:05:00] For sure. That's awesome. So you talk in your, in your bio about core values becoming the key to the process that, you know, helps people become impactful leaders. So what are core values and how do they align with what you're trying to do?

Andrea Johnson: Well, we talk a lot in the business world, Angela, about core values, and it's a really hot topic.

Businesses are figuring out their values. I came from two amazing schools of medicine and it's larger institutions on the East Coast that have fabulous values that they work towards. And so a lot of times what we'll do is we'll say, you know, I'm just going to make my own values. And so we think that we're going to.

Figure them out or put them together or decide on them. Right. And what I want to tell people is that core values are not something that we decide on that are outside of us. These are the principles and the priorities that guide each individual's actions.

Both: Mm hmm. They

Andrea Johnson: represent your foundational convictions, they allow you to navigate all of life's twists and turns.

Mm [00:06:00] hmm. Ups and downs. It's waves crashing over you while keeping your identity and your authority in the forefront. So these are your own guiding principles. So whenever somebody I do workshops in this too, right? And I started out by saying, I'm just going to tell you up front, if you tell me that faith, family, and country are your, we're going to, we're going to have a conver, we're going to have a deeper conversation.

I'm going to push back because all of those things are kind of outside of you. Faith might be arguable, you know, right, right. They're outside of you. And so. Your core values are the things that you're born with. They're your non negotiables, every single decision, argument, pushback, reaction, greatest joy, deepest sorrow, every single thing that you've experienced, especially in interaction with another human being or situation has touched on one of your core values.

Yeah, that's interesting. It's literally like Kind of, if you could open up, like, the non physical part of you and look in and see the [00:07:00] Venn diagram or, or whatever, of, like, these beautiful jewels that kind of make up your core. That's what they are. And so being able to identify those, man, that gives you, imagine, and I watch people do this, the authority to just be yourself.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Yeah. So what are good examples of core values? And what, what are core values that you find that align differently with different types of people? Like, for example, for a CEO is a core value going to be different than somebody who is a school teacher? And, you know, does that kind of dictate how your how your career goes?

Or do you find that there's their career has less to do with core values and more to do with, um, Um, like legacy and how they, you know, what they've wanted to do and kind of skill set.

Andrea Johnson: Well, for starters, I would say that your core values, you can be a CEO or a school teacher and have the exact same core values, right?

They are going to play out differently. So how we integrate them into our [00:08:00] lives, into our leadership and our relationships, that's our work. But the other piece of that is there's a difference between principles and things that we value. Like, that's where family or, or sometimes, um, religion or even, you know, patriotism, those kind of things are going to show up as things that we hold as high principles for ourselves.

But my core values are going to show up differently in my family than yours will.

Both: You and

Andrea Johnson: I both might say I value my family, it's my values and how I work my business, but I'm going to show up differently. So core values are things that we can't necessarily see, things that are documentable when you touch them, right?

So for instance, I have several clients who respect is their top core value. Yeah. And so, and that one sounds, it, it is intangible, but we see actions that demonstrate respect.

Angela Gennari: Right.

Andrea Johnson: Freedom is another big one. I thought that was my top core value for a long term, for a long time until I realized doing more work and becoming more and more [00:09:00] aware of myself.

It's actually autonomy of thought. Oh, interesting. Literally do not tell me what to think. Yeah, exactly. And you know where that showed up? It showed up in the two year old that my mother could not control. Right? I mean, it just, we, we don't think about how these things really are integral to ourselves. I have another client who said her top core value was dependability.

Ooh. Yeah. Yeah. And it just like, she's dependable and it's like, it doesn't matter. But the other thing about core values is that they're reciprocal. Yeah. They don't just go one direction. Right. But I only want you to respect me. I'm really just a narcissist. Right. Exactly. So, but if, if respect is really a core value, then I care just as much about what, whether you're respected or not, as I care about whether I'm respected or not.

And so it might show up and play out in social justice, or it might, you know, it might play play out in employee relations, right? So depending on, and those are very different ways that that one core value can show up. Um, so they're, let's see, they're invisible. They [00:10:00] are reciprocal. Um, but they also are the thing that either brings you your greatest joy or your biggest anger.

So I tell people if you're having, if you're stumped, When you start, look back over the last week or two or month, what angered you the most? What really ticked you off? I mean, like, fried green tomatoes, lady hits the car, kind of like, I'm not doing this anymore. And, um, it's amazing how when we look at that, we can see it and say, okay, that really angered me.

What would be the value underneath there? What is the thing? And then flip it over to the positive opposite. Yeah. And if you, yeah, if you can look at the things that bring you joy, then, then that's how, but back to your question about careers.

Both: Mm hmm.

Andrea Johnson: When I left, so the last institution I was at was the University of Virginia.

Great, great institution. Yeah. And um, but as a autonomy thinker, right? It's like, they kind of need you to do their thing, right? Right, right. And so I realized it's like, it can't be in a big institution. But they invited me back, Last fall to [00:11:00] do a kickoff workshop for training research administrators And they really liked this idea of helping them how understand their core values And then they said could you help them teach them how to align their core values with our core values?

I'm like I can tell them how to look at whether or not your core values will allow them to show up in a way That will honor theirs Uh huh. And how theirs can be honored. Right. But I am, if, if I tell them to align theirs with yours, I'm asking them to take on yours. Right. Right? Right. So when we look at how we apply core values in career, a lot of times we just need to ask ourselves, if I am in this situation or in this institution, can my core values be honored?

Mm hmm. Can my autonomy of thought be honored? Can my, my second one is authenticity. Can I truly be myself? Can I and that's a big one for a lot of people. Yeah, and it probably it will probably get more defined as I go As I age and as I look at it some more, but it really is a big deal [00:12:00] So can I be truly authentic?

It was a conflict for me when I would hire people Straight of assistant in a school of medicine and say this is a launchpad job for you. It is not a landing pad I expect you to grow and I'm gonna help you grow And then two years later, when they leave, the chair of the department's like, why are they leaving?

What did you do? And he's like, no, you didn't want somebody who's going to stay a long time. So my authentic playing out of my authenticity in my leadership, there, right. That didn't mean that there was anything wrong with that. Organization or institution. It just wasn't right for me. Right, right, right. My third one is belonging.

Angela Gennari: Oh, I like that

Andrea Johnson: one Yeah, and so I realized I mean I grew up overseas and so I had it wasn't any real lack of security But my personality is such that I felt a lack of security Leaving the united states going to korea traveling a lot. My dad being [00:13:00] gone a lot 70s and 80s And I just I needed to feel like I belonged and we had this amazing expatriate community, a bunch of missionaries and business people.

And so I belonged in that. Well, then when I came back to the United States, I'm a third culture kid, right? It's like, I don't fit in in Texas. Houston, Texas, I was weird. So I tried finding a sorority and I tried doing all these other things and my need for belonging was never really met. It was for a really long time and I went through bulimia and depression and all kinds of things because I didn't know how to handle that.

I was just dishonored. It wasn't anybody's fault. I just didn't know how to do it. Now, I realize, oh, my belonging is played out in the fact that I've just told my family this is how I am.

Both: Yeah.

Andrea Johnson: And I just, and my sister's like, we love you no matter what. I'm like, oh, thank goodness. And my husband and my son, you know, that's how belonging plays out.

But in a relationship, I want you to feel like you belong. Right. Just as much as I belong. So it [00:14:00] creates this openness, which then. Oddly enough, Angela attracts people, you know, I mean, it just, so when you're, when you do that and you are more yourself, that's how you, um, that's how you find a better career path.

And so instead of saying, I'm going to do it based on legacy, it's like, if that's what you're doing it for, and that's important to you, you can figure out how to honor your core values, even on that kind of path.

Angela Gennari: Oh, sure. Absolutely. If you come from a, you know, a. Family of attorneys or a family of police officers and you want to go down that path because it's a legacy that your family is created.

You can still figure out how to do it and still be authentic. Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, um, I love that because I feel like my core values, you know, when I look at, you know, My life, you know, for me, integrity, integrity is the one thing that I get angry when somebody doesn't have integrity or, or it tells me that they're going to do something and they don't do it.

Like, that is the one thing that, you know, it's like, if I've done something, if I've scheduled something, [00:15:00] this podcast, you know, when I was, when I was joining, I was like, I'm so sorry, I'm a mess. I took a red eye. I'm exhausted. And, but. It was on my calendar and it's going to happen. And so like, I am, you know, true to what I, my commitments.

And so when other people are not, that's one thing that really goes through me. So I can't, I love that.

Andrea Johnson: And you know, if, if we were in a coaching situation, I'd be like, all right, tell me more about this integrity. How would you define it? And you kind of did, you said, I do what I say I'm going to do.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. Every time, every time. Yeah. So, and I think it's so important for me and you know, why I struggle with other people sometimes, because if they, if they burn my trust one time, I really have a hard time with that because I feel like they've lost, they don't have integrity. Like the, the entire core value is gone.

They don't, they don't have it.

Andrea Johnson: Well, you know, part of. Part of the way we grow and um, is being able to understand that our core values are really for us. Right.

Both: And

Andrea Johnson: so [00:16:00] as somebody exits my course or my coaching program, it's like, yeah, don't go out there and beat people over the head. It's not how it works, but it does when you learn to integrate them, they, Then, then we step into my business name, which is intentional optimism and we start integrating them through using the six tenets of intentional optimism that include things like courage and presence and optimism and energy and, um, wisdom and intentionality because not everybody has that core value, you know, so you get to decide how to interact with that and how to take care of it.

If it means that you need to have a conversation with a staff member or I don't work with that client anymore. Right. It's like you get to decide how you're going to use all of that information as you move forward.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. I love that. And so earlier we were talking about, um, different personality tests and I have a psychology degree and I've taken all kinds of tests.

And so I can appreciate the value of them because it has helped me to [00:17:00] discover my more authentic self. Yeah. You know, these, these personality tests that, you know, it's just, it's, it's just, it's on paper. Right. And so things that I've denied or things that like, that doesn't feel right. You know, like it helped me to put together the pieces of why I make the decisions that I make and how that plays out in my life.

And so they've actually opened up Pandora's box for me to just kind of understand a little bit more about, um, authenticity. And it allows me to be more accepting of it. And I try less to be somebody I'm not, right? And so I think that that is what, that's what a lot of these personality tests have really done for me.

So, um, how do you use that in your line of work?

Andrea Johnson: Well, I personally am certified in DISC, which is a behavioral analysis and communication style assessment. And I'm with the Maxwell team. So it is all leadership and communication based. You can do a [00:18:00] DISC assessment online, I think for free, but you can do a whole bunch of different companies have partnered with people keys and they all present it from a different angle.

Mine personally is from the one that I use with Maxwell is personally from communication and leadership standpoint. So it's looking at everything from how you, how you recognize the patterns in your communication, how you then speak to other people using their language, if you will.

Angela Gennari: Right.

Andrea Johnson: But it also has this amazing.

I don't know. It's like, it's different. It's proprietary to Maxwell and it's called the power desk, but it's seven areas of leadership that the assessment actually helps you determine how developed you are in those areas. And so it shows you, yeah, it shows you where you are on detailing. It shows you where you are on, on, on relating or processing.

And the goal is not to then just only work on the things that you're not developing. Right. The goal is to, especially at a CEO level or an executive level is, Oh, this is a great [00:19:00] opportunity. I've already gotten here on my strengths. Then I want to turn around and mitigate or augment in the areas that I don't have strengths in.

And so when I work with people. And use this tool. I usually start, especially in a business relationship. I start with disc because it is on paper because it is a report. It is something tangible. It's something that you take an assessment and then it spits back something for you. And then we walk through it and we layer in core values and intentional optimism because a lot of people need to start with a tactical piece.

So I use it for that. Um, but I just, on my own podcast, just finished it. 10 episodes of five huge tools that I've used throughout. I mean, I started Myers Briggs when I was 15, right? So, I mean, it was the first time I took one, I've done the California. And so there are five main tools that I just shared that and disc is one of them.

And it's, they're all for different reasons and they measure something differently. So if a client wants to. You know, dive into CliftonStrengths, we'll look at that, but I am not certified in it. So [00:20:00] I use them to, as a tool to help you learn how to communicate better.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, I think that's brilliant. And, and I, I'm not sure, I could be getting just confused with another, um, another one, but there's a book by Dr.

Kathleen Edelman called You Said This, I Heard That. And it is a, uh, it's a personality assessment, but it's more of a, um, Oh gosh, why am I blanking on this word? Um, it is a, an assessment on how you communicate. So that's what makes me think it's similar to DISC and it uses the red, blue, green, yellow. And so red is like your, um, that leadership that go getter that, you know, and so, but it's all, um, introvert.

So red is extroverted, Process oriented, and you are describing disc. Okay, perfect. So she just must have interpreted it in her, her own way. So yeah. So I am an extroverted process oriented person. And so, yeah, so the way [00:21:00] that that comes across, though, is I can be harsh to other people, or it sounds it comes across as harsh, because I'm very direct.

And I'm just going, I'm going to I'm going to go right to what I have to say. Instead of the, Hey, how are you? How's the family? Like, I'm just going to say, Hey, did you get that done? Like, I just want to know, I don't really know. I don't, you know, the other stuff is not a concern. I need to know what I need to know first.

And so, um, that can come across as harsh. And so I've learned how to temper that a little bit, just understanding it. But um, But I think one of the challenges that I have had personally is that I, I register very, very low on the empathy and green scale. So I, I don't have much of that, like on the, uh, CliftonStrengths out of 34, uh, 34 traits, number 34 is empathy.

Okay. And I think, um, of the red, blue, green, and yellow, I had a total of [00:22:00] zero green. Okay. Okay. It's a little concerning, but at the same time, like I've, I've learned that I, while I, while it doesn't come natural to me, I can force that into a conversation and make other people feel more comfortable. So like I, I, can I give you a little

Andrea Johnson: encouragement?

Angela Gennari: Sure.

Andrea Johnson: Sure. Right. You're using words like I force myself and I'm harsh. And if you haven't picked up on it, I'm the yellow. Um, you hadn't nobody picked up on that yet. Sure. But also, just in case your listeners don't know what disc is, Uhhuh, , it's just very quickly, it's on an XY axis. So it's four quadrants.

Mm-Hmm. . And the Y axis is what you talked about is the extroversion versus, um, intro. If you don't call it introversion or reserved, extroverted or reserv, outgoing or reserved, the x axis is people oriented versus task or process oriented. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . And so. The D is in that top left quadrant, and we call that the driver or the dominant, and that is literally an extroverted process or task [00:23:00] oriented person, but we look at it as even though you think you registered zero on the green, you're just registering in what we might call negative on the green spectrum.

Okay.

Both: All

Andrea Johnson: right. And so, um, when the, so for those listening, the D is the left quadrant, the top right quadrant is the I, which is the inspirational or the influencer. These are storytellers. These are sense of humor. They're about 11 percent of the population. These are only about 3 percent of the population.

Yeah. Yeah. Which is great. We don't need a whole. Yeah. We don't need a whole bunch of those.

Angela Gennari: That's terrible.

Andrea Johnson: No, that would be too many drivers in the bus. Um, but then going around the bottom right hand quadrant, these are your people oriented and reserved people. These are your greats. These are your S's or your steadies.

And they're about 69 percent of the population. Wow, really? I know. Wow. So then the, the, the bottom left quadrant is your blue or your creatives, compliance and, or the C's. And these are only about 13%, but these are your detail people. Yeah. If you've got somebody who is like questioning you [00:24:00] every single time and wants to know all the details of a project.

And for a D y'all are both on the process or task side, but you're like, Result oriented, get it done. I don't care how you do it. And this is like, but what if I do it wrong? Learning, everybody has a different pattern. But another piece to tell you is that when I, I'm an ICD, right? I mean, I actually have three above the midline.

Wow. My S is so low. So I literally tell people I am the definition of a non team player. You know, we can embrace who we are and learn how to communicate with other people's patterns. So all you have to do is keep in mind, you don't have to force in how you do it and how's your family. Right. Just remember what's important to the S is the best kinds of things.

It's making sure that we don't change just for change sake, Miss D, right? Right. I mean, that's what a D does. Right? Yeah. What if we did it this [00:25:00] way? And they just go. Yeah. Yeah. But a C is not questioning you because they think you don't know, they're questioning because they want to do it right for you.

And so a lot of times we switch it around and see the I is the life of the party and wants to tell the stories, even though it may be hard, even as a podcast host, to get her to shut up. Right? No, no. But, um, but the nice thing is when I work with Ds, with a really like a very heavy D, I will actually help them gamify or result Orient a process orient dealing and communicating with the different types, right?

So if you identify someone on your staff, that is an eye,

Both: figure out

Andrea Johnson: how to figure out how to gamify making the communication with them fun for them. Yeah, you can just like walk by and say, Hey, how was the race this weekend? Yeah. Yeah. Hey, you know, did your team win? You know, and then the eyes like, you know, and it's like, what did your kid do in softball?

And then you walk on, you have laid the groundwork for fabulous communication with them. Yeah. Yeah. For an [00:26:00] S, it is making sure that they have what they need, that they're secure and that they're safe and just taking the time, right? Maybe make it a, a game for yourself. How many questions can I ask in 10 minutes or five minutes?

Yeah. Yeah. Because then it takes away, because when we talk to ourselves, it matters, right? It's like, and I know that you came off a red eye, I know that you're tired, but I just can't help but be a coach, right? No, it's great, it's great. Don't force yourself because they feel it. Yeah.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Oh, I know force it.

Everybody feels it Well, and I have to remind myself like if I'm putting an email together, you know I'll have to like I'll or I'll shoot off a text and it'll be the first text of the day and like they've texted me And said good morning. Blah blah blah. I hope you had a good weekend. Well, how's this going?

And I'm like Okay, remember, remember to say good morning. Like, it's one of those things. Yes, right. But I have to like remind myself, say good morning, because I'll immediately shoot off a response like, oh, and good morning. So, you know. I'm going to answer [00:27:00] their question.

Andrea Johnson: So maybe the game is. I get laser focused on the, on the question.

Maybe the game is I repeat back to them what they said. Oh, good morning to you. I'm, you know, I'm enjoying my coffee and how are you by the way? Did you get that book thing?

Angela Gennari: Yes. So I'm learning. I've gotten much better. Um, it actually is an improvement, but the, the, the Dr. Kathleen Edelman book. So when, when they're talking about these temperaments, so it's a temperament test is what she calls it.

And so. It just allows you to communicate more effectively. And we started doing this with new hires in our office because it is one of those things where, you know, if I know I have a green and I'm frustrated because she's just not producing the results and I've asked her to do something 10 times, you know, it's like, I've got to find the one way where it's going to, I have to inspire her to work,

Both: not

Angela Gennari: demand her to work.

And so there's different [00:28:00] ways to get. Effectiveness out of your out of your people. And so that's how you do it. You work in their zone of, you know, here's how I would be more effective if you communicated with me. And so it really just helps everybody if you understand where they're coming from and what their values

Andrea Johnson: are.

Absolutely. Because when, and what the beautiful work that I do is when we, when we do the disc and we understand that, and you know, it's like, I'll say it now, here's your team, right? Here's your whole team. And then, then we do core values. And it may be that if your core values, integrity, and you have a green, that you can't figure out how to inspire.

And she keeps doing it wrong. That's, that's a core value. It's not just, you're It's not just communication. That's a core value that's being hit there, which is why it makes you so angry.

Both: So,

Andrea Johnson: you know, then you can take that information and say, all right, what is, what is their core value? You know, cause I, I didn't, you know, you know, something's good when you give it to someone and then they say, can I turn around and use this on my team?

And you have never even thought about using [00:29:00] that way. My core values work has developed that way because it's been so effective and helpful. And when we know who we are and how we communicate. That gives us two thirds of the basic equation of how we actually succeed.

Both: And

Andrea Johnson: that just, it makes all the difference in the world, but I love that you're using it in the hiring process.

Yeah. Oh, I

Angela Gennari: think it's so important. And you know, I was actually talking to another friend of mine and, um, I guess they had used it and they're a much, much bigger company. It was like a technology company or something. And, um, Engineers, you know, a bunch of engineers. So you have a lot of blues and you picked up on the language.

So, um, but they would have, they gave them blocks and the block would say, you know, Talk to me with respect or talk to me with, you know, um, intention or whatever it is. And so they would put those little blocks on their cubicle so that, you know, I'm not really familiar with Bob, but I go over [00:30:00] to Bob's cubicle.

It's going to change the way I ask him to do something because his core value or his, you know, uh, temperament is going to be different. And so the, you know, I said this, you heard that means I can say the exact same thing. To 10 different people and they're all going to take it a different way. And so, you know, it's all about how you communicate and communicating to the person in a way that they will receive it the way you intend

Andrea Johnson: it.

Yes. Yes. And we do the same thing. We have like little things that we put on for teachers or for cubicles that we say, hi, my name is this and I'm a this. And we use, um, not just the temperament, but we use an actual like designator for it. Like I'm an ICD and they call that the leader. My husband is a CS and that's called a precisionist.

Right. So. Um, it just, I love that is also a high C, uh, but he's the mediator. Right. So it's like, because it shows like, it kind of gives you a name for the qualities. [00:31:00] I coached one woman who was a chancellor and she was like, what on earth? I'm like, Oh my gosh, you need to look up what a chancellor actually is.

This is a big deal. You can actually see the big stuff. But when we do that, um, we, What you're doing is you're giving the example of remembering that the communication responsibility falls on the communicator. Yes. My responsibility as the one giving the information to make sure that you get what I intend.

Yeah. That's really profound. Yeah. I need to do it in a way that you understand. It is the best way that you can care for your staff.

Both: It is the

Andrea Johnson: best way you can get employee engagement. It will change. It will change everything.

Both: Mm hmm.

Angela Gennari: Absolutely. Yeah. Because I mean, if, if I say it in the way that makes me feel comfortable, I could walk away and that did not get received the way I wanted it to.

And therefore it's not going to resonate. It's not, they're not going to be able to execute on what I want them to do because it wasn't received in the way I intended. And so really just, you know, crafting [00:32:00] that, you know, the speech and the, the instructions and, you know, the ask around how they're going to receive it best is really critical.

Andrea Johnson: Yeah, I mean, because if we do that, then we're being self centered, selfish, we're being lazy, right? And there's not a person listening to this podcast who's lazy. Right. Exactly. And why be lazy in our communication? Mm hmm. It's true.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. And it's self centered. You're right. Because I mean, it is, it's about, you know, it's about me and what, what works for me and how I can, how I can do things for myself to make it easier for me.

And so that's not always the best way to go about it. Yeah. So. Yeah. Very cool. Not as a leader. Not as a leader. So, um, so what is deconstruction? And, you know, cause you, you talk about deconstruction in, in your bio also. And I'm just curious to see how that becomes, um, uh, I guess just a, an influential factor when, when you're dealing with [00:33:00] clients who need to improve their communication style.

Is that what deconstruction is?

Andrea Johnson: It can be. In general, deconstruction is taking it apart, whatever it is. If it's an engine for a car, if it is my religious faith, if it is the way I see the way, um, the way I've always seen what it means to be a leader in industry, any of it, it's just taking it apart. We watch Top Chef and I love deconstructed salads.

Yeah. It's, it's pulling out the individual parts and kind of putting them back together. It's never just pulling them apart and leaving them on the floor. My son used to do that. He would pull apart a drone and leave it on the floor and I'm like, I can't have all these little pieces everywhere.

Both: Yes.

Andrea Johnson: So it's, it's the process of deconstruction reconstruction of pulling apart the pieces of whatever it is you're looking at and then putting them back together in a way that either was original or makes sense in a new way and.

When I talk about that with, with especially women leaders, we have so much in our conditioning, I call them ABCs, [00:34:00] assumptions, beliefs, and conditioning. There's so much conditioning to deconstruct that comes from, Quite frankly, centuries of the way things have been done and recognizing that patriarchal systems does not just, it cannot only affect females.

It also affects, it affects everyone and deconstructing the way everything that we've done from the industrial revolutionary, industrial revolutionary, industrial revolution on and deconstructing the way we see See what a leader is, deconstructing the way we interact with our communities, the way we do diversity inclusion, being willing to take in information, decide whether or not I want to take it as a whole, or if I want to break it apart and say, what is for me and what is for, what is not for me.

I don't have any impact when I am acting within the assumptions, beliefs, and conditioning that I have been handed or that I have accepted over the years because it was easy.

Both: Mm

Andrea Johnson: hmm. And if I don't develop and if we don't [00:35:00] develop clear understanding of who we are and who we're uniquely designed to be, and that includes DISC and core values and other things, then we will never, ever understand our true source of authority and we will never be able to communicate it.

I love that. I

Angela Gennari: love that so much because you're so, so dead on with all of this, because I think that's what visionaries do well is that they take a process and they say, okay, I'm going to deconstruct this entire process. And this part works for me. This part works for me. All these other things, they're antiquated and we're not doing those anymore.

And, um, you know, we've, I've done that with my company in the security industry. So, you know, I, I always say I'm quite an anomaly because not only am I a female founder in the security industry, which is not, not. Very common,

Both: but

Angela Gennari: it's also, I don't come from law enforcement and I don't come from military and I don't come from a large security agency.

So like I come from outside the industry and people weren't sure what to do with that at first. Cause I was breaking up the whole [00:36:00] system. I was like, Nope, I'm going to take this piece and this piece and we're not doing any of the other stuff. And they're like, but it's always been done that way. And I'm like, that's exactly why.

Yes. So, you know, it, it, is a challenge, but you know, it took a while for that acceptance to come through because when they see you doing something differently, when they see you like breaking a system apart, it's not received well, many, many, many times. And so you really have to show the value of it before you get the buy in.

Yeah. Well, remember

Andrea Johnson: 69 percent of the population and then another 13 percent are on the reserve scale. That's 69%. Those S's, they don't want you to change any processes. No. They're, they're the, the back end of your change curve, right? It's like the front end of your change curve, your D's and your I's. And then if you get enough information to your C's and a few S's, you might get them like heading over the top, but it takes a long time for those S's to all come on board.

Yes. Okay. You're the ones that you have to really massage into change.

Angela Gennari: Uh huh. Absolutely. But, but it is a fascinating [00:37:00] process. And I think that you can come up with so much. I mean, like, you know, even simple things like computers, you know, like one of the reasons I'm a huge Apple fan is because Steve Jobs was a great visionary and, you know, he was great at deconstructing, you know, he's like this part of a computer works.

All this other stuff doesn't work and we're not doing it that way. And so, you know, he did that with so many things. He didn't necessarily invent everything,

Both: but

Angela Gennari: he found the better way. And so, you know, he didn't invent, um, digital music. He just found a better way to put it on an iPod, you know? And so there's just so much that, um, you know, he's not the godfather of all inventions, but he's the, he's the person who really.

Um, in my opinion was the visionary and the one who found. all the processes that didn't make sense and he removed them and took out the inconveniences. So,

Andrea Johnson: well, and if you want to flip that around too and talk, I'm an Apple fan as well. I noticed as you were putting together your computer, we have the same port that we need for our USB [00:38:00] stuff.

Half the time I can't even take my computer anywhere because everybody has a USB or HDMI to play. Exactly. Yes. Flipping that around. What not only did Steve Jobs do all of that, but Apple Perfect example of speaking to all the different types, speaking and communicating their values as a company and making sure that it's a customer experience.

So they're, they're straightforward bottom line. People get exactly what they want. It's straightforward bottom line from Apple. S's get all the security that they need. C's get all the detail. They get everything. I's have the beautiful fun experience. I mean, you brought that up. They're just a really good example of living all of that out and communicating their message in a way that is safe.

So that's great. And so I'm, I'm just curious about the, the, the role

Angela Gennari: that that touches on all of the different people. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And, and yeah, so everything, I'm a huge fan of different CEOs. Um, I was talking to, um, at that female founders, two 50 thing that I went to over the weekend, I was talking to one of the other ladies and I said, yeah, It's a spot.[00:39:00]

I said, I got to go get a Lyft. And she's like, why Lyft and not Uber? She's like, everybody takes Uber. And I'm like, CEOs. I was like, it's the CEO difference. And I said, I'm a big fan of CEOs. I think Lyft has a better program. And it was like, I just feel like they do it better. And I was like, they have a better CEO.

They're more innovative. They've, and I said, so I'm loyal to. Efficiency. I'm loyal to, I'm loyal to caring about their, their audience. I'm loyal to, you know, um, a CEO who goes out to do the right thing, not just to make a whole bunch of money. So, so yeah, that's, uh, but yeah, so it's, it's an interesting dynamic out there when you look at your values and how you are purchasing decisions.

And so many people just blindly purchase. They have, they just purchase because it's the most convenient, the cheapest, the most available. Everything that I purchase has to align with my values and whether that's taking a ride share or a computer, you know, and, and so it's, it's very, very important to me that the, [00:40:00] the companies that I'm utilizing also align with my core values.

Andrea Johnson: Well, and you know, for those listening, y'all, she's, if you haven't given her five stars already, you need to, cause she's She's literally making my points. You're doing, and you're asking beautiful questions because, and giving me great examples, because when, when you talk about how you line up and why you do things, even if you hadn't identified a core value, you're living in a way that honors them.

So if anybody listening says, well, how do you do that? That's how you do it. That's how you honor the things that, and it may be that you find that there's a principle underneath that, or that's a principle and you've got something underneath it, but that's a great example.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, we, we speak with our money and women have, you know, we are, we are the economy.

And, and so when you think about how much decision making power women have in purchasing, you know, we, we are very powerful and, you know, we can demand that companies start aligning with their core values in a way that makes sense for us. Um, so I think that that's, that's [00:41:00] also an important part to, to get across to people that, you know, you, you, you vote with your money.

Absolutely. Every time. Mm hmm. Every time. So tell me a little bit more about these three ABCs that you talked about, because I want to dive into that. That's really interesting.

Andrea Johnson: Okay. So, you know, I love acronyms and examples, but when I started my deconstruction process for myself and for me, I come from a, like I said, my parents were missionaries in Korea.

So I come from an evangelical Southern evangelical background and my husband is a pastor. I met him in seminary. You know? Uh huh. But I, as I age, I'm 57 and I lost my mother at age 50 and went into kind of a crucible, kind of really saying what is it that I, and I had already kind of started this process a little bit, but it's amazing how hard circumstances will put you in a place to make you really look at things.

And I'm like, what do I stand for? And as I started doing some deconstruction in my faith space, um, deconstructing the [00:42:00] external things, not the internal piece, um, I realized I had. I had assumed so many things and we do this, every single one of us do this. And then we, and we assume that our beliefs are, let's look at those assumptions.

And then we assume that our beliefs are things that we've always had and that we'll always have and that they're not affected by anything. They're just me. These and people will say, I believe in this and that's my core value. No friend, you don't. That's not. Yes. Let me define it for you. Beliefs are changeable.

Assumptions are things that. We have just come to like, I hate to keep using the word assumed. We just assume they're true. Yes. We, beliefs are things that we have attached a true value to. Okay. So beliefs are changeable. Okay. Right? Yeah. So you might've believed. before that another computer company was a good one for you to support.

Now you believe that Apple is the one you support. That's a changed belief. You have now changed the value of truth that you've placed on that. So beliefs are [00:43:00] things, if anybody has changed a political party, if anybody has changed a religion, that is all belief, that falls in the belief area. But every single one of our beliefs and especially our assumptions are buoyed and undergirded.

I love these big words. Um, they are supported by all of our conditioning that happens from the day, probably before we are born, but especially from the day we are born. And, you know, fish don't know they're swimming in water, right? So there's no reason to blame yourself for your conditioning. We, we have an awareness of what we have when we have it.

Like, I know what I know when I know it and not a minute before. Right. I describe ABCs as an iceberg, right? The assumptions are way above the water. It's what we see. Yeah. And people bump into those and we're like, Hey, what you doing? You know? Yeah. It's like, cut it out. Um, beliefs kind of sit like at the waterline, above and below.

Some of them people don't really see, we don't talk about because it might cause an argument or they're things that we're just really strong about. [00:44:00] Things are just way out there. Or I attend church every Sunday, so people both think I believe and assume I believe certain things. Right. But the conditioning below that is everything from the way your mother held you when you were a baby, whether or not she breastfed

Both: you,

Andrea Johnson: the community that you were in, the neighborhood you lived in, the school you went to, the studies that you did, the friends that you had, their parents and the things that they said in the background when you were playing on the playground.

All of that is conditioning. Yeah. At some point in our life, We take over some of those things because our beliefs, like we start off in a little tiny iceberg and we start off with nothing and it just kind of builds and builds and builds and As we decide certain beliefs that we're going to have, like when I was in college, I, one of the things for me belonging was I actually joined the college Republicans.

Yeah. And it was just like, that's who I am. And this, right. Ends up with all my conservatives, this, that and the other, and I, that's who I am. And now I look back and I'm like, what kind of damage did I do? [00:45:00] Um, but it just depends because I, you know, I was blindly following because I had, I was allowing this.

Sense of, um, safety in the flotation device that was my conditioning to fuel a belief to let me move forward in that area. So the hard work, when you start looking at your core values, when you start looking at your, um, conditioning and sorry, when you start doing some deconstruction of the things that you don't need anymore, whether or not you do, you have to be willing to confront your ABCs.

Both: We

Andrea Johnson: have to be willing to say, what do I believe about this situation that's making me assume certain things? Mm hmm. Where did that belief come from?

Both: Right? Mm hmm.

Andrea Johnson: So it's all part and parcel with the deconstruction process.

Both: Mm hmm. But if

Andrea Johnson: we're not willing to do that work, Angela, we will never, ever change, and we will never grow.

You know, you talk about women who break the glass ceiling. We won't break that glass [00:46:00] ceiling because we're just going to bump up against it. And it's just, that's just going to be as high as we'll go. And it's, that's some really hard work going beneath the waterline into the darkness because there's things down there we don't even realize are there.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have plenty of conditioning that, It's even funny. I told my dad I said, yeah, I kind of thought this I thought this thing and I don't even know why I did it was just just kind of was like in the background of my mind and he looked at me to why would you think that and my dad was a missionary and a preacher and stuff.

So this is a theological thing. And he said, Why would you think that? And I'm like, Well, in my mind, you said it. Oh, no. I would never say that and I'm like, but see, that's, we assume, you know, it's like I had this conditioning that my dad was my spiritual authority. Therefore I believed that anything that I considered to be from a spiritual authority was from my dad.

And so that was an assumption that that came from my dad. And, and then when I went to chop that piece off my iceberg, my dad was like, I didn't do that. Yeah. It's, it's all a piece. [00:47:00] When we talk about doing internal work, this is the part that gets scary for us, right? Because it may mean that we have to change relationships.

It means that we have to let certain things go, change a direction in our career. Um, you know, there's certain things about My past that I and and we may have to apologize for things. Mm hmm. There is grief involved Always because we're gonna either grieve the things that happen to us or we're gonna grieve the things that we did to other people

Both: So

Andrea Johnson: understanding being willing you're just tackling all the big things today I know being willing to look core values is the positive stuff That's where you find all the really good things, right?

It's a great place to start because it helps you shine positive light on all of those ABCs. It helps you see into the murky waters, you're like down to the Titanic, right? It's like, it helps you see, whereas if you just start with deconstruction and you just start with conditioning that can be a very dark place.

It can. And [00:48:00] so I like to offer people the hope of shining light in dark places in order to help us find them and to realize it's not the only way I've ever been. Yeah. Cause it's not, it's not a two dimensional thing. It's a lot of things. Full 360. Yeah. And there's plenty that we have been and will do that is amazing.

And the more we get rid of the stuff that we don't need, the farther we can go.

Angela Gennari: Yeah, absolutely. And I love that because I am a big believer in, you know, once you have reached a certain age into adulthood, you no longer should be able to lean on, well, this is why, you know, what happened in my childhood impacts what I do today.

And like, no, no, no, no, no. You've had time to work through that. Like this is why. Or you need to work through it now. Wow. We evolve, we evolve and we become better. We do personal growth. Like this is where, you know, you no longer at 40 years old or 50 years old or 60 years old get to say, well, it's because my dad always did this.

No, no,

Andrea Johnson: no.

Angela Gennari: You know, you have choices now, [00:49:00] right? And we have the ability to look at your driver's

Andrea Johnson: license says you're right.

Angela Gennari: So, and that's hard. Absolutely. It's hard, but you have to be able to face it and, and you can't just lean on the, you know, and so when I hear people excusing bad behavior because of some, Oh, well, you know, she does this because of what her, you know, her, her childhood was like, and I'm like, ah, no, she doesn't do that at first.

Because of what her childhood was like. She does that at 40 because she's never dealt with her childhood. Yeah. That's the difference.

Andrea Johnson: Well, and we've gotten into the habit or the rut, or it's a coping mechanism that we just haven't challenged, you know, and examined

Angela Gennari: thing. We've, uh, we've. We've convinced people that it's acceptable.

Our behavior is acceptable because it's, it's more convenient for them to accept it than for us to change it. And so, you know, the more people, um, you know, when, when somebody goes and tries to convince you that their behavior is understandable because of what they've been through. Um, and so they can get excused for bad behavior.

That [00:50:00] that's not an excuse. Like you've had time to figure this out. So, yeah, so I'm, I'm, Again, no empathy.

Andrea Johnson: I'll add the empathy in. Here's because my empathy is good for me. And Relator is number one and Consistency is my number 34, remember? But here's the deal. There's a difference to, and I had this conversation yesterday, between awareness and doing something about it.

We can be aware of what's gone on in our childhood, but if we don't do anything about it, that's knowledge without wisdom. Yes. Right? So it. Being aware of something is your invitation to fix it. It is an invitation from your younger self if we want to stay in that genre. It is an invitation from your childhood to say I need this fixed.

Could you please fix this for me? And we'll work together to make it better, right? And so, um, so there are ways to do that and ways to look at it to remember that things do happen and things are real, but it's always an invitation when we [00:51:00] get the awareness of it to actually work through it and figure something out.

Angela Gennari: Yes, absolutely. Well, we have just, I know we're running over time right now, but you have just been so fascinating to talk to and I really, really enjoyed it. But, um, I will just ask you one more question and what is it that you wish more people knew? That they are allowed to think for themselves.

Andrea Johnson: Yes, exactly.

I do. I wish they knew that it was totally fine to think for yourself and to figure out who you are. And when you do that, you will have so much more power. You will have, I mean, we talk about being pretty powerful, right? It's like, you'll see. Just be so much more powerful. You will be so much more magnetic people.

Like I said, when you're authentic like that, and when you can be you, then people are drawn to you and you don't have to defend your opinions. You don't have to defend your boundaries. It becomes much more natural. Absolutely. Please. Think for yourself.

Angela Gennari: I love that so much. Well, thank you so much. And how can people find you Andrea?

How can people [00:52:00] find you on the on the web on on LinkedIn?

Andrea Johnson: I am the intentional optimist. You can find me on my my website the intentional optimist You can find me LinkedIn and Instagram. I'm very active there I have a lot and I will respond to all of your DMS Oh, nice. You can, yeah, you can eat and unless it's a spammy thing, don't do that.

Yeah. You can email me at Andrea at the intentional optimist. com. I do have a podcast myself called stand tall and own it, and it's all about empowering us to do exactly that. All the quirks, all the strengths, all the weaknesses, figuring out what it is. Yeah. But right above my head on my website is a button.

Three core values exercise. It's a one page PDF downloadable. Do that and get started, right? Yeah. Figure out who you are. And if you need more help than that at the bottom of the page, that's where it says you can get my core values course, or I have some coaching. I'm taking on some coaching clients where we work through the course with individual coaching, coaching sessions [00:53:00] with that.

And that's what I said after that first session, a lot of people leave a little discouraged because they're like, I thought I knew them. Yeah. Angela, 100 percent of my clients start thinking they know their core values. Yeah. Guess how many don't know their core values? I would say probably at least half.

100%. Wow. No one has come in because we just don't know how to look this deep. Yeah. We just don't know. And so it's, and it's a good thing and it's beautiful and it's always exciting to see people completely change the way they move and act and, and speak. the world and to just watch him. I'm, I'm all about let's, let's flourish and I'm sure we can flourish.

Angela Gennari: Please

Andrea Johnson: reach out. I'd love to hear from you.

Angela Gennari: Yeah. And you can also find Andrea Johnson on our pretty powerful podcast. com. So if, um, if you didn't have a pen and write it all down, you can always go to the website and, um, her links will be there. So we'll make sure that you can connect with her in some way.

So thank you so much, Andrea, you have been such a delight to talk to, and I've really, really enjoyed our conversation. [00:54:00] Thank you. It's been my pleasure. Absolutely. Well, everybody have an amazing day and, uh, we will talk to you next week.

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